Generators?

[steve_earwig]

It occurs to me that I've very much hijacked Sam's generator thread, sorry about that. I can move it to my "today I have..." endless drivel thread if required.

Anyway, yep, it's all up and humming. The PV guys (Denis and Dražen) were back today for some final testing. It's all going ok but it turns out the system only monitors 1 phase, if the phase it's looking at drops out the house goes to battery but if either/both of the other two go it won't. Not really the PV guy's fault, this system is pretty much off the peg and the first one they've done with back-up. What it needs is another relay and a load more wiring... Oh lord So, I looked into what of importance is on that phase, which is the pc and TV, plus (after some rewiring) the dining room lights (where my Mrs. teaches), everything else is fairly unimportant. I can also go upstairs and switch the whole lot onto battery if I need.

While Dražen had the cover off the fuse box I took a picture for your amusement:


2 bedroom bungalow, 3 phase installation. 20 fuses, it's insane

It's currently generating at just under 2kW and the meter is merrily spinning in a reverse direction. I think I'm going to have to keep an eye on it. I'm not keen on pulling the plug on it so I might just use an electric heater to warm the place up

[Welly]

I R confused at the cable colourz, but it looks quite neat considering the amount of sh*t in there.

[steve_earwig]

That one's fairly good, the only problems I see are the neutral to the RCD is black and coming out of it it's yellow and one of the neutrals is a suspiciously brown colour. Most of the rest of the house is whatever colour they had to hand, so for example I have a socket just over there where live is brown, neutral is brown and earth is, er, black.

[steve_earwig]

Fuse panel at my house, compare and contrast:

[Doggy]

The setup in your house looks pretty good, steve. I hate those U-Boat style German bottle fuses, but they still fit them to current state-of-the-art machinery, so I guess they must pass muster somehow.

The first fusebox example is fairly horrifying by today's standards. (They must have a specially porky Balkan 'finger' for the IP2X test). How many 2-cables into a crimp designed for 1 joints is that? One is obviuosly discoloured from overheating, the 4th and 8th from the left on the top row are a different colour, so have maybe been repaired once already. The separation between phases on those MCBs, (or are they cartridge fuseholders?), looks like its only about 4 or 5 mm in some cases. Circuit identification?

Don't think I'd sleep too soundly with that lot between me and the exit.

[steve_earwig]

They all look different colours to me Umm, the brownish crimp connector runs the... hold on... (where's me specs?) a/c boiler which is 1.7kW. Oddly enough that's the one that's already burned the switch out and cooked the insulation on the wire. No, they're mcb's. They work too, surprisingly.

I have no idea of this IP2X of which you speak but I've been around electrickery long enough to know dangerous when I see it. Yes, it scares the bejesus out of me too but to change them I'd have to make huge holes in the walls...

They have no ring mains, all the wires head off to a box in the wall where one feed can supply two sockets and a light switch. Or like the wire they moved over a phase, which supplies the kitchen lights, the dining room lights and the washing machine in the bathroom (that's why all the mcb's are 16 amps). Joints, other than under a screw on the fuse panel, in a light switch or socket, are TwIsTeD ToGeThEr and wrapped with insulating tape.

Notice where all the wires head off upwards in the fuse panel? The majority next appear in a box above a doorway about 10 feet away. It's about 5" square:


The last time I had that little lot out I had to squash them back in with the blunt end of a hammer, only turning the power off after the flickering lights got scary. DraŽen, who is a bona fide electrician, had it out today and guess how he got it back

You'd think, with all this crap wiring about, Croatian houses would be bursting into flames left, right and centre but they don't appear to. Maybe it's because they don't have much wood in their construction, apart from roofs.

I just have to add that the way the sockets are held in the walls here is with two metal hooks that you wind out into the plaster to hold it in place. It's always a wise precaution to hold the socket while you unplug anything as the socket can easily come out of the wall too.


Welcome to my world! Let me know tomorrow if you have any bad dreams...

[steve_earwig]

Here you go, because I know how enthralled* you'd be by this stuff, I took a quick pic of the wonderful* retaining* mechanism* just for you

[Welly]

That junction box colour-coding? nah...place yer bets! and to top it off a nice metal cover plate

So everything's ran out in radial circuits using singles? the gauge of the wiring looks quite hefty actually.

[steve_earwig]

Nah, the lids are flimsy plastic. I've had to change a few here because whoever put the heating in didn't bother to move them when they were welding it up (it's steel pipe) and repaired* them with lob, so when I have to take them off it all falls out on the floor. They don't make the same ones any more either, the new ones are a different size, clip in after a load of fiddling and fall off occasionally.

Wire size is mostly 2.5mm with 1-1.5 where it heads off to the lights.

I must confess that I've been changing the joins for chocolate blocks because in my ignorance I think that's better than sticky tape, but it turns out to be a mistake, I tightened everything up as much as possible but it all seems to have worked loose (the electrician reckons it's because the circuits are heating and cooling, which doesn't sound good). He's probably coming back to sort them out as I don't even want to get involved with it while he's happy to work on it live. I'd really like to rip it all out and do it sensibly with rings but there's no way I can get to the tails without dismantling the fuse panel (maybe) and leaving us without power.

The random colour codes don't really bother me as I've learned to ignore them, when I did the kitchen I found it's better to physically trace the wires and label everything: earth, neutral, live from fuse whatever.

[Bailes1992]

If the cables are heating and cooling then it means the cables are far too small for the job.

Looks like Croatia would be a nightmare for me to be an electrician. My OCD nature would go haywire (haha get it? heyWIRE... wire... lectrics... wire like pipe for letrics haha).

Do all domestic houses have a 3 phase supply?

Doesn't even look like it has an RCD?

[Welly]

The electrician that did the new extension used some of these push-fit connector blocks, they look really good. There's others called 'Wago' blocks with closing-levers too.

[steve_earwig]

Good lord Welly, that's damn interesting! Cheers

If the cables are heating and cooling then it means the cables are far too small for the job.

Looks like Croatia would be a nightmare for me to be an electrician. My OCD nature would go haywire (haha get it? heyWIRE... wire... lectrics... wire like pipe for letrics haha).

Do all domestic houses have a 3 phase supply?

Doesn't even look like it has an RCD?

The RCD is the box in the bottom left of the panel, all houses have one (there's a surprise) although I think it was Doggy said they're not sensitive enough.

Most older houses have 3 phase, more modern houses don't unless it's requested, neither do flats. When I bought my house here it had a 3 phase storage heater in the lounge that I scrapped, older cookers are also 3 phase (but they generally only use 2 and can be wired to use 1), I didn't actually know that until I went to take the old cooker out at mine, turned off the mcb's until the lights on it went off and then discovered their existence the hard way.

If I could get into the fuse panel I'd change all the heavy load circuits and neutrals to 4mm. But then if I could get into the fuse panel I'd want to change the whole lot for something more sensible anyway.

[Bailes1992]

Those push fit connectors aren't the best but they are better than connector blocks.

I the ones with the snap down leavers are much better though. You know if you a good connection with them.

[steve_earwig]

Cheers This I'll have to see...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WAGO-Connecto ... 1c2ef66f4d seems to be both Still, 18 quid-odd and 3 quid postage to here can't be bad. Looks like all the kits on the bay contain both.

Actually, a lot of the new switches and sockets here have push fit connectors, I suspect they're rubbish so I don't buy them.

[Welly]

That kit looks very good. The amount of times I've f*cked about with screw-type chock blocks only for the wire to pop out again and you always seem to be stuck for working space when you need to join wires.