Getting harder to start

[steve_earwig]

Any luck chuck?

There's all sorts: type 46, 63, 75 etc...

Type, That's amp hours. There's plenty of threads on the subject, or you could stick your car in here (found that one doing a search on here but there's lots like that) and see what they say.

[Captain Jack]

Not the battery. He tested it and it looked fine. Glow plugs are fine too as collectively they drew 78 amps when the car was first switched on.

Got it going pretty quickly with Easy Start. That's never a good sign. So, the guy reckons it's the fuel supply.. or rather air getting drawn in during the night, leaking back to the tank. Suggested replacing the seal on the fuel filter, which I'll do today (assuming my fuel filter arrives) and see that fixes it. If not - I reckon it's garage time so they can check for the leak. Might be expensive...

I questioned the low pressure pump in the tank and the fact that it's self priming but the guy didn't have much faith in self-priming systems. The other thing he suggested is getting a primer bulb and stick it just before the fuel filter to manually draw the fuel in the morning - at least until the leak is diagnosed.

So... is it a good idea getting this primer bulb? Something like this?

Great start to the week

[davew]

you mentioned that you have seen some gold colored swarf in the filter housing which is normally a sign the tank pump is dying ,can you hear the pump priming when you turn the ignition on if not give it a wack to see if it starts running.
did the AA man check to see if the pump was running as it's not uncommon for them to die.

[Captain Jack]

No, he didn't. It is on my list of suspects. I bought some clear fuel tubing, so will replace the "in" pipe to see what's happening and whether the fuel is being pumped out of the tank. Going to replace the filter now along with the seal.

Bought some Easy Start for very emergency use as I know it's not good for the engine to start off that stuff.

Of course, since this morning it started several times without any issues... And will continue doing so until tomorrow morning.

[jasper5]

I've been resisting commenting on this until the fuel filter has been replaced, but I thought you should try something....

If the fuel is leaking back to the tank and causing the bad starting then you can prove or disprove this by parking the car downhill...this would make it impossible for the fuel to drain back to the tank, so, if the starting problem is still there you know it can't be that, however, if the starting problem is solved, great, you know the problem.

I have to tell you that I had a cold start problem with my van 2 winters back, i tried everything, but decided to replace my battery even though it tested fine...problem solved, it's been fine since.

[Captain Jack]

Jasper, you almost have the nail on the head. The car is already parked downhill slightly, so that would probably tell me that there's no fuel leak.

Also... I just replaced the fuel filter and washed out fuel filter housing with Fairy and water to degrease it all, dried it out thoroughly and gave everything there a spray with brake cleaner, so it's almost like new now! The seal has also been replaced.

While the above was drying, I connected a clear tube to the pipe fed from the in-tank pump. Turned the ignition on and the fuel shot out of there with quite a speed! So... the in-tank fuel pump is fine too and I guess even if the fuel did retreat to the tank, it would be pushed back to the engine by the pump.

With the filter back in place (the old one was quite filthy), I turned the ignition on a few times without cranking to re-prime the system and could hear the fuel being rushed into the filter housing. On the fourth time, I cranked the engine over and it started within a couple of seconds. So... I am no closer to figuring this out, as it's definitely not a fuel supply problem to the filter/HP pump.

Are we looking back at the battery? My girlfriend has jump leads in the boot of her Suzuki Swift (1.5 petrol) - is it worth/advisable to connect them to my car tomorrow morning and see if it fires up? I heard some electrical systems can fail because of that.

My PP2000 delivery has been delayed due to the seller not having the correct USB cable. He's given me the option of waiting for it to arrive in a few days or a refund. If it's the battery, costing £70, I wouldn't mind getting this back... should PP not tell me anything useful.

[steve_earwig]

I heard some electrical systems can fail because of that.

Yes indeed, I put a warning up about it once, same as ignoring the 3 minute rule, you can fry stuff with stray current.

[dave406]

Jasper, you almost have the nail on the head. The car is already parked downhill slightly, so that would probably tell me that there's no fuel leak.

Also... I just replaced the fuel filter and washed out fuel filter housing with Fairy and water to degrease it all, dried it out thoroughly and gave everything there a spray with brake cleaner, so it's almost like new now! The seal has also been replaced.

While the above was drying, I connected a clear tube to the pipe fed from the in-tank pump. Turned the ignition on and the fuel shot out of there with quite a speed! So... the in-tank fuel pump is fine too and I guess even if the fuel did retreat to the tank, it would be pushed back to the engine by the pump.

With the filter back in place (the old one was quite filthy), I turned the ignition on a few times without cranking to re-prime the system and could hear the fuel being rushed into the filter housing. On the fourth time, I cranked the engine over and it started within a couple of seconds. So... I am no closer to figuring this out, as it's definitely not a fuel supply problem to the filter/HP pump.

Are we looking back at the battery? My girlfriend has jump leads in the boot of her Suzuki Swift (1.5 petrol) - is it worth/advisable to connect them to my car tomorrow morning and see if it fires up? I heard some electrical systems can fail because of that.

My PP2000 delivery has been delayed due to the seller not having the correct USB cable. He's given me the option of waiting for it to arrive in a few days or a refund. If it's the battery, costing £70, I wouldn't mind getting this back... should PP not tell me anything useful.

I now have PP2000 your welcome to popover this week as im not to far from you

[jonny81191]

Try replacing the fuel filter first and foremost. If that doesn't help, then I'd start by cleaning the FPR, followed by checking/swapping the crank sensor for a known good one. Also check the battery, it's worth doing with winter approaching

[Captain Jack]

Jonny, you haven't read any of the thread, have you? :d

[jonny81191]

Jonny, you haven't read any of the thread, have you? :d

Erm.. yes. But only the first page I'm still getting used to this forum. Apologies!

[Captain Jack]

Jonny, you haven't read any of the thread, have you? :d

Erm.. yes. But only the first page I'm still getting used to this forum. Apologies!

This morning it wasn't as cold and I ran the car for a couple of minutes yesterday evening at 10pm, so today it started...but again after cranking it for a good few seconds. So the new fuel filter didn't really do anything.

Went to get a new battery on the way to work and they said I could return it if I find the problem being somewhere else (as long as I don't use the battery) - got an FPR arriving today (by accident) and PP2000 arriving tomorrow, hopefully.

There's not much else left - crank/cam sensor? Hmm... maybe if it's erratic and it doesn't catch every "slot" in the cog, then it could be reporting lower RPM than actual one, though the RPM dial is behaving normally. Which sensor does the speedo RPM counter use?

Temperature sensor? Mmm... not sure. The car is far easier to start after it's been started - even if I switch the engine off after only a few seconds - so it'll still be cold.

[Welly]

It kinda sounds like the ECU doesn't know the engine's turning and so isn't firing the injectors. The would point to the crank sensor in my mind. Have you had any work done in the area of the sensor (which I admit to not knowing exactly where it is) which may have caught the wire or the connector to it?

I suppose you'll be able to narrow it down with fault codes.

[Captain Jack]

It kinda sounds like the ECU doesn't know the engine's turning and so isn't firing the injectors. The would point to the crank sensor in my mind. Have you had any work done in the area of the sensor (which I admit to not knowing exactly where it is) which may have caught the wire or the connector to it?

Well, the only thing I've done is change the bottom engine mount, which required removal of the driveshaft and emptying the gearbox. It seems to have started doing this after that. Maybe I did disturb something.

Where IS the crank sensor? I know the cam sensor is near the oil cap at the top of engine but crank sensor... near the starter motor/flywheel?

[jasper5]

At least you can now eliminate the fuel filter, that's how it is with diagnosing a fault, eliminate the easy thing first, especially as the filter was due for replacement.

The crank sensor is bolted onto the engine by 2 x 10mm bolts above the gearbox casing where it connects to the engine...in the centre.