and today i have mostly been...

[steve_earwig]

Meanwhile, I had the yoyo booked in to the guy that's been working on it yesterday, but he wanted it for a few days and the weather forecast started looking a bit grim with coldness and snow, so I decided to cancel it rather than drive the Pug - why have a dog (literally) and bark yourself?

I'm kind of glad I did that:





And the weather forecast is... MUCH more snow - oh my poor bluddy back

[Welly]

Bejesus

We're getting a bit over here, about 40mm so far

Actually, it gave me a chance to play about with the winter tyres - they will spin if provoked (I was hoping they'd have a bit more 'bite' to them?) but the big difference is the braking this is vastly different

Overall though a nice confident feel, probably lead you into driving a bit too fast on the white stuff

[lozz]

Not much snow on the roads up here
its all on the hill's

at 4:20 igot the car up on the top's and let the dogs loose, took me an hour to catch them
they love the snow,

[steve_earwig]

Our dogs were out in it earlier, Scooter's method of progress is to jump all the time, rather than try to run through it. I'd take some pictures but I think they're all kind of exhausted now.

We're getting a bit over here, about 40mm so far

Christ, that's more than an inch and a half - it must be bedlam!

Actually, it gave me a chance to play about with the winter tyres - they will spin if provoked (I was hoping they'd have a bit more 'bite' to them?) but the big difference is the braking this is vastly different

Overall though a nice confident feel, probably lead you into driving a bit too fast on the white stuff

"Ya canna change the laws of physics!" You probably want to pull the fuse on your ABS now... (I never have ) They've never made me feel over confident, they probably have much more to go but I don't want to find the limit the hard way. In fact the last drop of snow we had here I was being overtaken by the usual loonies in their Krautmobiles, I tried keeping up with a couple but it was always on my mind that if anyone did anything stupid there wasn't much I could do about it.

It's still coming down, even heavier than earlier and the yoyo's already completely covered again. There was even a few cracks of thunder earlier, not sure if that means anything.

[steve_earwig]

Ok chaps, I am officially raising the white flag and asking for your help over this pc thing. I've been reading various sites and looking for recommendations but I'm not finding much of it useful as all they seem to do is tell you what to buy but don't tell you why, so when I can't find what they recommend for sale over here (mainly because the stuff they sell here seems to be mostly out of date ) I don't know what it's safe to choose as an alternative.

My requirements are fairly simple, I mainly want to watch tv (iPlayer etc.), surf, fiddle with pictures and animated gifs, SEDRE, play music, that sort of thing. I don't play any games.

The problem I had with my old machine is I had to close most programs down to watch tv as otherwise the frame rate went out of the window. Ideally I'd like a machine that would show tv on the telly while I can do whatever I want within reason using the monitor. Obviously I couldn't watch another channel or a movie but it would be nice to be on this forum while the wife's watching Midsommer Morons.

The telly we have presently is a Samsung LE26S8 which has HDMI & DVI inputs and the book says its happiest resolution is 1360x768

Ideally I'd like this pc to last for maybe 10 years (like the last one) so upgradability is the word.

The two main motherboard manufacturers here seem to be Asus and ASRock. Now as far as I can remember the original board in my pc was an Asus which only lasted about 18 months, while the ASRock I replaced it with lasted more than 8 years, so I think I'd like to go for them again.

I am also biassed towards Intel and nvidia, although I probably couldn't make a convincing argument as to why this is so.

I have a fairly new 620 watt psu and 20" TFT monitor.

I don't want an SSD as I'm a compulsive program fiddler. I'm not much worried about speed anyway.

The copy of Windows 7 at my wife's school (which I can legitimately use apparently) turns out to be 32 bit, I presume I'd be best off with 64 bit but it seems like an unnecessary expense having never paid for an o/s before . Or I could use Linux 64 bit but then I'd have a hard job with stuff like SEDRE, so maybe I could dual boot for the time being.

Most motherboards seem to come with on board graphics these days, would this be good enough for the telly or should I think about getting a proper graphics card?

I have lots of SATA HDDs, I was thinking I could use two that I have now for storage, one older one for downloading and a brand new one for the o/s.

Now I found this board recommended http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Pro4-M/ which I'd be happy about (I know myself and if I got a budget one I'd always be kicking myself for not spending a few more quid on a better one) but the cpu recommended with it (Intel i3-2100 3.1GHz) is unavailable here, so if I went up or down a processor would that affect the memory choice?

Obviously I don't want to spend thousands but, as I'll be paying for it on the never-never anyway, I can't see much point in buying the most absolute basic pc and spending the next 10 years regretting it.

What do you reckon guys?

[jonsowman]

That motherboard looks fine, it's the Intel Z77 chipset and needs a LGA1155 socket type processor. Are there any Core i3 processors available with that socket near you? I recommend an i3 in order that the CPU match the performance of the rest of the system. In theory there are some Pentiums that will fit that socket, but you'll find them to be a bottleneck. Any of them should do fine. It has onboard audio so that's one fewer thing you need to worry about, and looks to have a pair of USB 3.0 ports so is pretty future proof in that sense.

Onboard graphics is in theory OK, but be sure that it can support dual screens if that's what you're after. That motherboard appears to have DVI, VGA and HDMI outputs, but whether they can some/all be used together is worth finding out. In terms of performance, I am certain onboard graphics will be fine, and you always have to option to add a dedicated graphics card later in the machine's life if you find that the onboard setup is no longer performing as you'd like.

A 620W PSU is fine, but is it a branded one? IMO the PSU isn't an area to skimp since if they fail, they have a habit of taking out many other components. I had a PSU fail and take out motherboard and RAM

Speaking of RAM, you just want DDR3 sticks. Personally I would be inclined to save a little and go for 4GB of DDR3 and then stick with the 32-bit copy of W7 that you can have for free. 32-bit operating systems can't address more than 4GB of physical memory in total, so if you wanted to put more RAM in in the future, you would later have to upgrade to a 64 bit OS. There are four RAM slots available on the board, so perhaps get a 2x2GB pair to start with (DDR3 dual channel kit), then you will have space to add more later on if you need (which I doubt you will).

Your plan with HDDs is fine - just remember that they do fail, so back up everything regularly. Using a new and trusted one for the OS is definitely a good idea.

Examples:
CPU: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showprodu ... ubcat=1671
RAM: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showprodu ... ubcat=1516
PSU: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showprodu ... =CA-171-AN

[highlander]

My current system is based on a Gigabyte motherboard - I bought it a year ago to replace my previous Gigabyte-based system, which is still going strong (in my step-son's PC). They might be a little pricier, but they use good-quality components (capacitors that don't go bang, etc). Over-spec the CPU and graphics card so that you still have a system that is usable several years from now.

For example, my old PC had an Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 processor. It's still a good processor and runs a lot of modern software despite the fact that I bought it in 2007.

My current system has a Core i5 with Sandy-Bridge architecture, and is quad core (can't remember the exact model now). It is noticeably better than the old chip, and I fully expect it to be a good system in 5 years' time.

The Acer all-in-one PC I just bought my wife for her Christmas is also based on a Core i5. It's a shiny touch-screen system built into a 23 inch full HD monitor - the picture quality is stunning. Windows 8 is OK, makes sense with a touch-screen but I think it would just be annoying without. If you do end up with Windows 8, I'd recommend installing ClassicShell, which is a nice piece of freeware that gives you the traditional Windows Start Menu back (but still lets you access the new-fangled Start Screen).

I did have an ASRock motherboard many moons ago but I didn't think that much of it. ASUS are the bigger-brand manufacturer, but I have heard of reliability issues. I'd definitely go for a Gigabyte board, and like you, I am also inexplicably biased towards Intel processors and nVidia graphics cards.

[steve_earwig]

Edit: It's mainly Asus, ASRock and there's some MSIs too but I've seen a lot of them dead... I can probably get hold of a Gigabyte but it'll mean more research and probably paying even more because there's less choice Time for some more research I guess.

@ Jon: That's look good, thanks!

Oh yes, there are i3s available here.

The psu is a Seasonic SS-620GM, not a manufacturer I'd heard of before but this one was recommended on sites like Overclockers. It seems well built, with decent connectors (not old hat AMP Molex rip offs)

The manual for the board says I can use any two video outputs - DVI-D + HDMI, DVI-D + D-SUB OR HDMI + D-SUB. I'll only need 2 so this is fine.

For backup I have the two storage drives duplicated in external cases - I've been there

Looking at your links I can get the ecu here, for only 4 quid more ( ) As usual though, I'm having trouble finding the memory so I've found something similar that's on the supported memory list on the motherboard web pages - Kingston DDR3 2GB 1333MHz (KVR1333D3S8N9) times two please

That'll do for a start, everything so far is on this site http://www.supernet.hr but I'd like a case with filters in it, there's a Fractal Design on there that looks the part but they're out of stock. It's this one http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&prod=60 which has lots of space but filtration is my main concern - my present case has a Peugeot 406 air filter grafted on the side because we have 4 cats and, presently, 5 dogs. Welcome to dust bunny hell

How am I doing? Thanks for your help so far! I really need someone to hold my hand as I'm terrified I'm going to knob this up and order a load of stuff that's incompatible...

[jonsowman]

Great, an i3 of any sort will do you nicely as long as it's the correct socket. That PSU sounds fine as well.

It's good that the onboard graphics can support dual screens, just check that your monitor and TV have suitable physical inputs.

One thing about the RAM, since the motherboard supports dual channel operation you'll be wanting to take advantage of this as it does offer significant speed increase over single channel. However the memory controller is fussy about the two sticks being precisely identical, which is why manufacturers sell "dual channel kits", as in my link above. I recommend trying to find a 'kit' rather than buying two sticks, which whilst may appear identical, can upset the memory controller. It shouldn't really be any more expensive to get a kit, but have a look to see what you can find. Kingston is a well-known and decent brand of RAM, no problem there.

I have a Fractal Design R3 which is a lovely case, extremely quiet with lots of air filtering and places for fans. The build quality is excellent as well, so I think you'll do well with the one you suggested. It's a good idea to clean the filters and blast dust out of the case every few months, otherwise the reduced airflow is asking for overheating problems.

Edit: Pics of my system here if you want to see more of the case: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonsowman/ ... 397836175/

Further edit: Check power supply requirements of the motherboard (20+4pin ATX and some have an additional 4 pin 12V molex) and that your PSU meets them.

[steve_earwig]

I had an excellent guide on power supply cables bookmarked once but I don't see it anywhere dammit The manual for the Z77 says it'll also take a 20 pin power connector so I guess things are still 20+4, which I have:


These cases have certainly come a long way from these old tin boxes I have here. The one you have there looks very fancy, and that's one hell of a cpu cooler I have a Zalman flower in my old one, I suppose that's just so much scrap metal now I can't see how you routed the cables, the early shot of the psu mounted at the bottom look like the cables are going to get right in the way but in later shots they've just disappeared - I presume they run up the back of the motherboard, I did see that on a case review I was reading.

Dual channel memory really is that critical then? This place I'm looking at only does one pair at 4 Gigs - http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configu ... AD3B1K2/4G It says the board will take up to 1600MHz but is there something I have to beware of regarding the clock speed? Also these don't appear on the motherboard list, I realise they can't test every stick of memory available but...

[jonsowman]

Yep that looks perfect in PSU terms. You've also got the 6 pin PCI-E things shown in that diagram which you may well need in the future if you decide to upgrade to a dedicated graphics card.

My CPU cooler is way overrated because my primary objective was building a very quiet system. In fact that heatsink is so big that under normal load the fan doesn't even turn on. You are correct about the cables, there is a half inch gap between the motherboard tray and the rear side panel, so all the cables go through the nearest opening in the motherboard tray and are routed through that space. It helps to keep things tidy such that airflow is as good as possible (also I'm just a bit OCD like that).

It's not critical as such, but if you can get a 'kit' without spending much (or anything) extra, then do so. The problem is that the actual ICs that memory manufacturers use all the time as supply and demand changes, so if you bought two from (for example) Kingston, there is no guarantee that one might not have Samsung ICs and the other have Alliance.

In terms of clock frequency, as long as the RAM frequency is equal to or greater than the motherboard frequency it will be fine. For example, that Kingston RAM you linked to is 1600MHz, which is a speed that is supported by the ASRock Pro4-M motherboard. The memory controller can reduce the clock frequency if required, but 1333MHz or 1600MHz RAM is probably what you'll be looking at and those are both supported without issue.

[steve_earwig]

Splendid That's looking at about 200 quid for m/board, processor and RAM. I'll have to get the wife to ring up about the case as they still have zero stock. Add a SATA DVD rewriter and Bob's your uncle

Hmm, this seems too easy, is there anything else I need to panic about?

I know what you mean about keeping things tidy, it makes perfect sense and I've always tried to tidy every machine I've owned or worked on. Mind you, you should see the mess behindthis pc now, it was tidy once...

[jonsowman]

£200 is pretty good for what you're getting, should last for many years and it's certainly upgradeable (as you said you would like) in terms of graphics cards, storage space and RAM. DDR3 has been around for a few years now and has been very popular, so getting hold of it in a few years' time should not be a problem.

I can't think of anything you've not considered but best wait for someone else to come along and have a look. You could post on the Overclockers forums or somewhere like that perhaps

[steve_earwig]

Wot, post on a proper computer forum?

[jonsowman]

Wot, post on a proper computer forum?

Radical, I know. But they might point out something we've missed