Thoughts on Handling

[Nightshade]

Hi Chaps,

I wondered if I could get your thoughts on handling. Having only ever driven my own car, it's difficult to judge....
I have a D8 estate, having just come from a fiat punto before. I realise that the 406 is much bigger, heavier and set up for a comfier ride, however the difference is ridiculous!
I find she has a lot of understeer and tyre squeal. There's one roundabout in particular at ASDA where, when taken at normal car park speeds i.e less than 10mph she squeals louder than the stereo. I'm a bit fed up of shoppers whipping their heads round in horror, expecting to see a spotty 17 year old in a saxo mid way through a handbreak turn..... nope, it's nightshade trundling along in a diesel estate
She rolls quite a lot, and that combined with 10 miles of understeer inspires no confidence. It's like the front end has no grip at all.
I have Pirelli's all round with tons and tons of tread, though she does have steel wheels. I was wondering if standard alloys are wider and might help with more grip?

Failing that, how do your 40's handle? does this sound similar? and if not, where's best to start looking?

[midsdaz]

I just put 17s on mine with 225 50 17 tire so got alot more tire on the road and it's 100% better my steal wheels was shite slide every where tire squel and the front end never gripped so I was in the same boat as u but I used to like the looks on ppls face when they seen it was a 406 and not a Saxo just to add
Mines a saloon

[rwb]

Thoughts:
* The same happens to me at certain patches in Morisons in Basingstoke. The surface is very shiny which is what causes it.
* They do roll a lot. I found that fitting a strut brace made a big difference on the front. Great mod for £10.
* Standard alloys take big squidgy 195/65 R15. I have Michelin Energy on at the moment which do let go noticeably sooner than the softer Kumhos I had on previously. (They're also the same price but last longer )

Generally, even though they roll and squeal a lot, I find that you have to push them surprisingly hard before they'll actually let go. Importantly, I find them predictable.

[midsdaz]

In the dry with steals on it did handle well for a big car but once the road is damp u had to watch the speed around corners but now I have changed them wet or dry it grips no more wheel spinning and ye as rev said the strut brace does help alot

[OdinEidolon]

The 406 handling is great under all point of views. This is not my view but the view of the main automotive magazines of the time. So if you have handling problems you probably have either crap tyres (how old are they, and which Pirelli model?) or suspension problems.

I had Michelin Energies last year when I got the car, they were 4 years old, still good thread. It was CRAP! Lots of tyre squeal, bad in the dry and horrendous in the wet.
Now with the new Nokians ZG2s I almost cannot manage to make it understeer on the dry, it is very balanced and feels extremely secure. Totally a different car.

[omega]

and steel wheels are lighter so less unsprung wheight so better handling.

[gumby6371]

Now I understand my 1.9 isn't the most powerful car in the world but I really have to push it to get tyre squeal with steels (195/65/15) or alloys (205/55/16) regardless of tyre brand/condition. She'll spin the wheels if I gun it in the wet but that's about it.
If the tyres are squealing at car park speeds then something is very wrong with the set up.
May sound daft but is it 100% tyres? my old punto squealed like a b*tch turning at low speed but that was a stretched auxiliary belt.

[Nightshade]

So if you have handling problems you probably have either crap tyres (how old are they, and which Pirelli model?) or suspension problems.

She's wearing Pierlli Cinturato P6's. No idea where they fall in the Pirelli range, probably near the bottom. Age is unknown as they came with the car.
I'm fairly sure that's the squeal I can hear as it's usually accompanied by the nose pushing on. So much understeer.
Saturday is MOT time, so I'll see if that brings anything to light with regard to suspension play etc. May as well let them do the checking first, then go from there. Assuming it doesn't, I might see if I can lay my hands on some alloys, as I'd like some anyway.

[Doggy]

you probably have either crap tyres (how old are they, and which Pirelli model?)

(& Adriano claims his English isn't so good).

and steel wheels are lighter so less unsprung wheight so better handling.

(now there's irony for you......)

[OdinEidolon]

So if you have handling problems you probably have either crap tyres (how old are they, and which Pirelli model?) or suspension problems.

She's wearing Pierlli Cinturato P6's. No idea where they fall in the Pirelli range, probably near the bottom. Age is unknown as they came with the car.
I'm fairly sure that's the squeal I can hear as it's usually accompanied by the nose pushing on. So much understeer.
Saturday is MOT time, so I'll see if that brings anything to light with regard to suspension play etc. May as well let them do the checking first, then go from there. Assuming it doesn't, I might see if I can lay my hands on some alloys, as I'd like some anyway.

Look at the DOT numbers (google will help you out on that one) to find out how old the tyres are.

you probably have either crap tyres (how old are they, and which Pirelli model?)

(& Adriano claims his English isn't so good).

Could be much better!

[Nightshade]

Thanks fella,

Feb 2010 is the date...

[OdinEidolon]

Thanks fella,

Feb 2010 is the date...

Not that old... the P6s are not the best performers around but should be overall fine. I'd look for suspension problems there.

[Nightshade]

Well Mot is done for another year. As suspected, they did find fault with the suspension - bushes on the rear top links are shot, so I've ordered a pair. He gave me some kind of warning about marking the washers before I swap them though, something to do with rear camber?
Anyway, they look easy enough to change. Not sure if that's likely to have been affecting the handling/ understeer?

Still, I'm a happy boy. I was told "she's in remarkable nick", so that's good news from a tester I trust

[midsdaz]

Well since I put my 17s on with 225 50 17 on the grip is awesome I've tryed to get it to go but it just holds the road like its on rails

[Nightshade]

Well I spent today swapping out the top links. I spent about 2 hours struggling with ball joints that just span and didn't undo until I realised there was a torx drive in the end
Ah well, good old fashioned muppetry. I'll get out for a good blast tomorrow and see if that makes any difference.