405 on veg oil... hard/impossible to start

[Bigcol]

Hi guys,
I've had my 405 td on veg oil for 6-8 months now, new stuff from the supermarket (when its on offer) and derv when i cant get any oil cheap So the other day i put some oil in the car from one of these "international foor shops" it said it was veg oil, and had a picture of a sunflower on the bottle, and at 70p a litre i thought i'd try it. A few days after pouring it in, the car became more and more difficult to start, some times taking 3 turns of the glow plugs and loads of throttle before it splutters into life. Even then its only firing on one cylinder! if revved it will fire on all four and stay alive with a bit of gentle throttle. The car has had glow plugs (all of them) 4-5 months ago, and changed the fuel filter 2 weeks ago...
Has any one got any experience of this?
How easy is it to drain the tank?
Should i lift the back seats and clean the fuel pump/strainer?
Thanks in advance
Col

[lozz]

Hi mate,
did you put alot of that cash n carry oil in or did you mix it with Diesel,
ive heard that the cheap oil has to be at a certain temp before it will burn like diesel eg its no good in winter (Neat),

iwouid empty afair bit of it out the tank and top it up with pump stuff,

[Bigcol]

Thanks for the reply, i only put 15ltr (about 1/4 of a tank) in as it was an unknown quantity... it does seem a little down on power too. I thought about putting diesel in it til its gone but didnt want to end up draining the diesel out too if it didn't work Plus the thought of going to a garage for diesel damn near kills me!! ha ha

[Gary406]

i take its a 1.9 diesel ? anyway these dont have in tank pump .... they only have the 1 pump up on the engine. my 406 1.9 has been on veg but not in cold months.

does the old 405 1.9 engine have a pre-heat system ? never seen one of those engines so dunno how it works ..

i get my veg oil from costco wholesalers . 20 litre drums are £19.98

but my newest 406 will be staying on derv forever and will never see veg oil . unless my MOT fails on smoke test. then i will add a few gallons to clear it up ..
my 406 xud has never seen veg oil and hopefuly it will stay that way.

[Bigcol]

Yes Gary it's a 1.9td. I took the strainer out of the tank last night to discover it was spotlessly clean. I even stuck my hand/arm right in the tank to see if i could find and crud in there but all was clean. In the bit where the strainer sits there was a cloudy white film on top of the oil.. i dipped my fingers into it, and it was oil.. it was almost like lard/ animal fat.... but i only use straight veg oil from the shop NOT filtered! So it can't be that (bit of emulsified water maybe!?) The next thing i did was mix a tiny bit of Acetone with some diesel and poured that into the tank, it started alot easier than before and didn't cut out. I also checked for fuel/air leaks at the injectors/leak off pipes... all clear there. Incidently the oil i put in just prior to these starting issues is the same stuff that was on offer in Tesco's... the offer ends this month. It would be interesting to see if any one else has bought some and is sharing the same issues as me.
For now i'm looking at this oil/ cold weather as the likely culprit!

[Gary406]

do you run it on 100% veg oil even in these cold months. if you do this is your problem .
the white lard bit you found is probably in the whole fuel system not just the tank,,,
if i was you i would put plenty diesel in there to thin it down...

i recall reading last year in winter months your suposed to do a 90% oil 10% petrol mix. the 10% petrol stops the veg oil from gelling.
veg oil gel's when really cold this is probably your problem.

try plenty diesel and let us know how you get on

[lozz]

Even tho fuels expensive,
iwouid get rid of what youve got in the tank, Run it off or drain it,
go back to the oil that you know whats good even if it does cost you more a litre,

itried going the Bio Route in my old hdi, and it didnt go to plan, Absoloute nightmare,
ijust had the full tank drained, ithought of it as its cheaper to drain it than buy another motor,

im not calling you for trying to run on the cheap oil but is it worth the gamble if you dont know what your putting in it,

the Cash& carry oil you mention, we used it in the chip range it seemed to spit alot, we stopped using it as we thought it had content of water in it,

iknow thats cooking but thats what we noticed with it, first thing we thought of it had water in it,

[Bigcol]

Cheers guys, i'm gonna re-fit the fuel filter and siphon the fuel out and replace with diesel to see if that cures it... failing that i'm looking for an air leak some where... any ideas where to start!?

[Gary406]

usuall suspect place is around the fuel filter housing .... but i rekan your problem will be solved with reg diesel in. as you said the lard type thing you found in tank will probably be in the whole fuel system. pipes .... all way to the injectors .

if i found that in mine i would fill with normal diesel then add some forte fuel system cleaner in to give the injectors a good clean and run it for a few hundred miles like that

[Bailes1992]

Nothing wrong with whats in the tank.
Chances are it has a lower gelling point than oil from the supermarket. Basically when it's cold it's going 'gloopy'.
You need to mix with 5% petrol and 250ml's of two stroke oil. Should cure your starting issues.

[Bigcol]

Thanks for the advice, 2 stroke oil... never heard of that man, whats the dilio!?

[Bailes1992]

2 stroke oil ups the cetane of the diesel. This makes it burn cleaner and hotter removing all the soot from the cylinder, exhaust manifold, turbo etc.
Also cleans and lubricates the pumps and the injectors.

Biggest noticable improvement is the lack of diesel clatter and it oulls harder and longer in the torque band.

[grasmere59]

I've heard a drop of 2 stroke oil is good aswell but only mineral oil though.A mechanic mate swears by it and puts it in his Ford Mondeo and his wifes Rav 4.

[Bailes1992]

Used to stick like half a litre in my XUD per tank
My HDi gets 250ml

[Bigcol]

ALL SORTED!! Thanks guys for all your advice.. I checked the glow plugs and timer.. they were fine, so i followed your advice on putting 250ml of 2 stroke oil in it and 3 litres of petrol mixed in with 5 litres of fresh diesel outside the car.The old oil is still in there as it will mix in within the tank. (I'll probably use diesel for the next few weeks to make sure that dodgey old oil is gone and then switch back to what i was using before) Then i took it for a 30 minute blast up the motorway.. holding onto each gear at 4500rpm for a few seconds before changing gear. I guess it must have been the viscosity of the oil i put in it,coupled with the cold spell.. it had obviously blocked something.. fuel line or injector!? The fuel filter is only a few weeks old but i will change that on payday.
Thanks again