End of the road ?? Or a new start...

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highlander
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by highlander »

jlmacd wrote:1. drivers electric mirror not working (nearside ok). Plastic trim cover for mirror fixings missing inside.....hmm!
Does suggest that someone's had a go at trying to fix it.
jlmacd wrote:2. passenger fwd/back switch not working (but motor runs both directions when seat back is moved, to allow access to rear seats. When fully back can hear the motor still trying to move it - something jammed?) Wasn't doing this when i arrived, only after moving it.
There are two motors that control forward/backward motion - one that does it based on the seat adjustment control, and a more powerful one that is intended to move the seat faster when tilted. It's entirely possible that the switch and relay are working, but that motor doesn't work. That's one for an auto-electrician, I think.
jlmacd wrote:3. trip computer doesn't seem to work? Could just be my stupidity, as I have never owned one! Tried all manner of manipulation/pressing of the end of the right hand stalk - as suggested.
I'm starting to wonder if this was indeed an S-trim car that's been upgraded with parts, but they haven't activated the trip computer through Peugeot Planet 2000 (dealership) software. Leaving a sort of hodge-podge of bits that may or may not fully work.

Generally, giving the right stalk end a press should change pages on the display screen between GPS, Current Trip MPG, and Total MPG. Holding the button down when on the Current Trip MPG screen will reset the mileage for that page. Holding the button down on the Total MPG page will clear the overall mileage. Note that this is not in any way connected to the odometer on the clocks behind the steering wheel.
jlmacd wrote:4. Heated seats - both switches illuminate (engine running) but no perceptible warmth on either seat. Again, could just be me!
These do die. The seat heating element is actually fairly fragile; kneeling on the seat has been known to break it in some cases, or in others, the element burns out. You can fix these, but it involves removing the leather cover and being rather handier with a soldering iron than I am. Mark.W, one of the Coupe Club forum members, helped me out by fixing mine a couple of years ago, but both elements are non-functional in my car once more.
jlmacd wrote:5. Front bumper - small crack, couple of scuffs on 'corners'
The crack is irritating but can be fixed using fibreglass patching; I'm pretty sure the Coupe Club forums have a "How-To" guide on repairing a broken bumper. Worth following through as a brand new replacement is in excess of 600 EUR. Or, you could see if Adrian Bingham (ade1122 on the Coupe Club forums, who breaks these cars for a living) has one in your colour in stock. The scuffs will generally require paint to resolve. It cost me (well, the other dozy bugger's insurer) around £300 to repair a crack in my front bumper and respray it. My luck being what it is, less than 3 months after the damage was repaired, some other sod got a bit close when coming out of the parking space next to mine and scuffed the same damn corner back through to white. Git. I've just left it.
jlmacd wrote:6. headlight washers - nearside visible (as plastic parallelogram cover is gone). Offside cover is there - can only assume washer assembly is present. Again, never had them so didn't know how to operate them to test at the time.
These literally just "pop" on. One of mine waved goodbye to me at 60 MPH down a single-carriageway road one summer day, and I had to buy replacements. Depending on the colour, you might be able to get a pair of them from ade1122.
jlmacd wrote:7. brakes - rear drums seem v.rusted (just like my GLX!) Pretty certain fronts aren't Brembo (think it said 'Delphi' on them)
The standard (non-Brembo) brake calipers generally don't have a brand name on them; the Brembo calipers are black and have the Brembo logo on them in white. The other ones are just grey, though if they're older calipers, they may look a bit like artefacts from the Titanic by this point (mine certainly did, anyway...)

The rear brakes are a drum-in-disc setup. The drum part generally does get pretty rusty, but as long as the disc surrounding it is shiny and not obviously scored across the friction surface or lipped around the edge, they'll be fine; nothing to worry about. You CAN get discs that have a special black coating, which is intended to rub off when using the brakes, leaving the friction surface shiny and the drum part black and protected against surface rust. They're not even all that expensive either.
jlmacd wrote:8. corrosion - overall seemed clean. Obvious small patch on top of drivers cill directly below bottom corner of door. Been touched over but 'bubbling' is evident. Is this a worry?? As I said, my own GLX has just been condemned for the cill corrosion but this is nothing to compare. Had a good old firm prod along the length of both cills and they seem sound (well, nothing gave way, at least!)
This is the one point where I think all Coupes get a bit of surface rust. Mine has this. I'm told it's not a concern, and none of the MOTs I've had have even mentioned this as an advisory.
jlmacd wrote:Can't really comment on under the bonnet, not being a mechanic. All looked tidy enough. Vendor said he had just had an oil and filter change done. Looking at the oil on the dipstick - oil was pretty black looking and overfilled past the max. Hmmm? Looking inside the filler cap, looked a bit 'mucky'. Then again, as I said, I am more used to very regular oil changes on my GLX - but would have thought a 'recent' change would look cleaner (i.e. gold not black)
I can't really say for sure, but with diesels, I think the oil does blacken a lot quicker than it does with petrols. Comes with the territory, I guess.
jlmacd wrote:When asking about the DPF, vendor said the additive had just been topped up 'with the Peugeot stuff' at great expense. How to know or check??
I don't think you can check. As long as the DPF light doesn't illuminate, you're probably OK. They're right about the cost though; the fluid is quite pricey, but you don't need to top it up very often.
jlmacd wrote:All else is as you would expect for a older car ('03 reg): paint chips, sadly a small dink on the drivers door (opening damage, looks like but small)

Took it for a short drive (with vendor) but never really got to 'open it up'. Was a short stretch of dual carriageway and got it up to around 60-ish. I will be honest, again probably only me, but I was not given to any sensation of power. Admittedly, I have been driving only the 2.0l 16v petrol for years but rather expected a similar, or better, response from it. Could be, because the gentleman was sitting next to me- and it is his car - I was being a little over cautious. On the faster bit of road it felt, to me, struggling to get on upwards towards 70mph (surely not?).
Don't get me wrong, it wasn't in 'limp mode' or anything but felt, perhaps, underpowered? Could this be indicative of a clogged DPF, I was wondering.
Struggling to get up to 70? Doesn't sound right. Accelerating in 5th gear from 50? Might be better to drop down a cog and give it the beans and see if it still struggles to get to motorway speeds. I'm not the right person to ask about HDi performance though.
jlmacd wrote:Last thing I would mention would still be the issue of renewing the cambelt et al. I got a quote for the full cambelt service (belt, water pump, aux belt etc,) my normal garage (who I trust and are always honest - a rarity these days, I know). They said it would cost £550 to do the full job.

I tried to engage in conversation with the vendor about the fact it is due but there wasn't much give. I still feel it is a valid haggling point though, no? Asking price is £1150 - cam belt replacement will cost half as much again....
From what you've said, it *sounds* like the car is not terrible, but not in the best of health. I'd still suggest at least looking at the V6 examples; you might find yourself with a bargain car in better shape and with a reasonably recent belt change, meaning you can pocket the difference and use it for petrol later :)
jlmacd wrote:Am still a little puzzled regards the trim level: says in the advert a 2.2 HDi 'S' Coupe. Noticed, from Highlander's description, that it has the leather seats, headlight washers (well, maybe!) JBL badged on rear speakers (not evident on front), cd changer and cd sat nav player in boot, cruise ctrl, seat memory and (almost) positioning, heated front seats(again, maybe!)
That's not the principle selling point for me, nice as all the bits are, I am much more concerned with performance and reliability.
Sorry, I should have said it's just the parcel shelf 6x9 speakers that have the JBL logos on the grilles. There's 8 speaker locations present in the JBL sound system - a pair of tweeters on top of the dash, a pair of tweeters just behind the doors, the pair of woofers in the doors, and the 6x9 subwoofers on the parcel shelf. The head unit on these is typically a Clarion radio/tape deck, with the 6-CD changer in the boot. The head unit doesn't have an amplifier, just a pre-amp, so the speaker connections don't go to the head unit at all. The Clarion unit exports line-level audio through the ISO bus connector at the back of the head unit through to the JBL amplifier in the boot, which then splits the signal out to the speakers from there. If that JBL amp isn't there, then it's almost certainly started life off as an S-trim car and had the other parts upgraded. It's a fairly nondescript black box, hidden in the same compartment as the 6-CD changer cartridge - it's located a little closer to the front of the car than the CD changer unit is, and doesn't have any logos visible on it.
jlmacd wrote:Am going back again tomorrow with a trusted mechanic friend for a second look and opinion.
Good plan, definitely recommend doing that.
2002 (D9) Peugeot 406 Coupe SE, 2.2 litre Petrol. Scarlet Red/Rouge Ecarlate/Rosso Scarlatto. Black Leather interior. SOLD :(
2008 (E60 LCI) BMW 525i M-Sport, 3.0 litre Petrol. Carbonschwarz Metallic. Black Dakota Leather and Myrtlewood interior.
GingerMagic
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by GingerMagic »

Hmm, as much as I love the diesel in the Coupe - if it's struggling to reach motorway speeds then it could be a can of worms waiting to be opened. When these engines are bang on, you can nearly keep up with the V6 - especially mid revs, but it does sound like the one you are looking at has a chequered history and the price is very steep for a car that isn't right.
Don't get me wrong, it may be something simple - but finding a fault can sometimes take time which may take the shine off what could be a great car.
Im not sure this is the car for you, but see what your mate says - black oil is normal after about a week...! The rest is niggling faults that maybe the previous owner just didn't bother fixing and learned to live with ( sadly it seems Peugeots get scrapped because owners let the list of jobs get too long and then suddenly a massive bill turns up ) Maybe a new owner would be perfect for the car, fresh enthusiasm and all that. How handy are you with spanners and electrical tape..?
Have a look on eBay etc for Coupes, the prices vary so much - and the V6 is a fantastic engine too - as Highlander says it's not as expensive to run as you may think, and you will have a smile on your face :cheesy:
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by jlmacd »

Highlander, thanks a million for the thoroughly comprehensive reply - invaluable!

The non functioning bits and bobs I can attend to. My life with my GLX was a constant voyage of discovery and repair, so am prepared to get involved fixin' stuff! Wonder if the Coupe wing mirror motor parts are the same as those on my D8 GLX? Probably not but, as I will have to now scrap mine, maybe I can salvage something of it?

Have heard much talk of ade1122 across both the forums regarding Coupe parts: how does one make contact? Is it just a case of searching the members database and sending a PM request?
I shall definitely be looking for the 'How-To' for bumper repair, if it is to be found. Also heartening to hear the headlight washer covers are obtainable. Happy to spray them to match body colour.
How ARE these activated? Couldn't see a relevant symbol on the wiper stalk.

I didn't investigate the existence of an amp. The cd changer is present, to the left and the cd sat nav on the right side. I shall look tomorrow.

On the subject of the Coupe Club forum, I seem to be having terrible trouble getting to connect to it. The server keeps timing out and is very 'hit and miss' - is this normal?

I took some pics of the brakes today, just for reference. If I can figure out how to post them I would! Also, took a few of the DPF...

Will also report back after tomorrow. Hoping my thoughts from today were only down to my cautious driving. Will have to give it a more assertive effort...

Thanks again for the reply.
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by jlmacd »

Thanks, Ginger Magic. Car was billed as 'One Lady Owner' (not my words, btw!) - service book has 12 stamps in it from new, last service was April 2015 at 117k. Now at 131k.

Could be, as you say, that the niggly faults and jobs just got ignored as they probably didn't affect passing the MOT. Or could be something else more sinister but, hopefully not. Have no problem attempting to fix stuff, spent most of my time doing so with my GLX, but I am not a 'real mechanic': what is beyond my ability goes into the hands of the local garage.

Interesting that the collective consensus seems to be that it the car is expensive. I have looked at many other examples, with lower mileage, and they all seem to sit around £800 - 900 mark. Couple were at £700 but definitely in their twilight years.

Would anyone have a stab at what a more reasonable price may be for this then, keeping in mind the impending cost of the cambelt change (or do I just swallow that?)

Am keeping an open mind now regards the V6 - again, can't hurt to have a look! Insurance must be a killer though, no?
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by GingerMagic »

You sound a bit like me....
I converted my GLX to an executive from my previous 406, so I learned quite a bit along the way, I'm happy do brakes, exhaust, starter motor, interior etc, and I've learned about the vacuum system and DPF too. Cambelts and clutch goes to a garage - I'm just a lorry driver that doesn't mind getting dirty but too cautious to remove a gearbox and find myself with a broken car and a driveway full of bolts....

Go with your instincts - plenty of help as you know if you need it, but I wouldn't pay more than £800 for that car in that condition, given it may need a cambelt.
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by Welly »

I have to say that from the description and 'road test' this Coupe doesn't sound very uplifting. Buying a car is horrid but it should be a case of being happy with how it functions but with maybe a few small niggles which you can attend to in your own time. This one sounds like more niggles than anything else.

Performance wise the HDi delivers power very differently to a Petrol, there's a wave of Torque between 1500 and 2800 rpm that you need to optimise for best progress. 'Flooring' the throttle does nothing and excess revs do nothing much either.

As Peter said; if you're prepared to travel this is likely to open up a range of genuinely cared for examples by enthusiastic owners who will be more than willing to discuss the cars history etc.

I'm slap in the centre of the Midlands and have bought cars from Heathrow, North London, Birmingham, Derbyshire, I like to see all of the offerings and narrow down the ones to view from the quality of the advert and maybe a quick pre-visit phone call.
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by PeterN »

Have a look at these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... e&_sacat=0

Or these even: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... i&_sacat=0

Perhaps not so nice looking but the 2.0. Hdi's are bombproof, the most reliable cars I have ever had.

If you click on 'sold listings' near the end of the list on the left you will see how much they are actually selling for.

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highlander
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by highlander »

jlmacd wrote:The non functioning bits and bobs I can attend to. My life with my GLX was a constant voyage of discovery and repair, so am prepared to get involved fixin' stuff! Wonder if the Coupe wing mirror motor parts are the same as those on my D8 GLX? Probably not but, as I will have to now scrap mine, maybe I can salvage something of it?
The motor may be the same, I'm not sure. If you did buy this car, you would be best to just buy a complete functioning mirror unit from ade1122. It won't be expensive.
jlmacd wrote:Have heard much talk of ade1122 across both the forums regarding Coupe parts: how does one make contact? Is it just a case of searching the members database and sending a PM request?
Pretty much. He also has an eBay store, called BB Autos:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/BB-Autos-used- ... =406+coupe

People who are members of the Coupe Club have been known to get better pricing contacting him directly (shipping discounts, etc).
jlmacd wrote:I shall definitely be looking for the 'How-To' for bumper repair, if it is to be found. Also heartening to hear the headlight washer covers are obtainable. Happy to spray them to match body colour.
How ARE these activated? Couldn't see a relevant symbol on the wiper stalk.
The headlamp washers automatically deploy when you have the dipped or full beam headlights on and you pull the wiper stalk towards you (the same control activates the windscreen washer jets). The headlamp washers pop up under water pressure, and are fed by a second water pump from the washer bottle. The pump that provides the water for the headlamp washers draws from higher up the tank than the one for the windscreen washer, meaning that the system will only wash the windscreen once you start running low on fluid.
jlmacd wrote:On the subject of the Coupe Club forum, I seem to be having terrible trouble getting to connect to it. The server keeps timing out and is very 'hit and miss' - is this normal?
I think they're having some problems with their web hosting provider. This will only be temporary.
jlmacd wrote:I took some pics of the brakes today, just for reference. If I can figure out how to post them I would! Also, took a few of the DPF...
Easiest way to share the images is to sign up for a Photobucket account. Upload them to Photobucket. Once uploaded, each image should have copy-and-paste link code to allow you to show them on various webpages and forums. The code you would need looks like this:

Code: Select all

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/graemeporter/My%20New%20406%20Coupe/Coupe-Alloys.jpg[/IMG]
When you add that text to a post here, it comes up with:
Image

Photobucket is quite easy to use, the free accounts give you a fairly large amount of space for images, and you can set images to be private or public if you want. All I use it for is hosting images I post on forums.
2002 (D9) Peugeot 406 Coupe SE, 2.2 litre Petrol. Scarlet Red/Rouge Ecarlate/Rosso Scarlatto. Black Leather interior. SOLD :(
2008 (E60 LCI) BMW 525i M-Sport, 3.0 litre Petrol. Carbonschwarz Metallic. Black Dakota Leather and Myrtlewood interior.
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by highlander »

jlmacd wrote:Am keeping an open mind now regards the V6 - again, can't hurt to have a look! Insurance must be a killer though, no?
Insurance firms are a bit weird sometimes. Case in point - several years ago, I mused at the idea of buying a Maserati 3200 (but didn't, and am glad, as the bugger would have bankrupted me, I'm sure). The quote I got for insuring this supercharged Italian grand tourer was considerably less than I was paying for insurance on the 2.2 Coupe, despite the Maserati being rarer, more expensive to buy new, more expensive to replace 2nd hand, far more powerful, rear wheel drive, less cheap to repair in event of an accident, and arguably more desirable / more likely to be targeted by thieves-to-order or joyriders.

I'd be very surprised if the insurance premiums quoted would be significantly different between any of the 406 Coupe models, to be honest.

I would recommend contacting your insurer, or just having a look on the likes of Compare the Market, etc. You may be pleasantly surprised.

As for the actual pricing of this car - the HDi model has held its value for longer than the petrol models have, because the UK market has always seen diesels as being fuel efficient and cheaper to run. This may no longer be the case given the potential for higher taxation on diesels in the near future. Personally, I'd stick to petrol unless you are going to be doing an awful lot of motorway miles; the petrol engines are far less complex and can be cheaper to maintain.

It does sound like it's got a lot of things wrong with it, given the amount they are charging for the car.

One thing I would say re. timing belt change - if you do go down the V6 route, I'd strongly recommend finding one that's had the job done reasonably recently. It's typically a fair bit more expensive for the V6 engine, on account of there being not much room in the engine bay. Or, ask your trusted garage how much they'd charge if it was the V6 engine they were changing it on.
2002 (D9) Peugeot 406 Coupe SE, 2.2 litre Petrol. Scarlet Red/Rouge Ecarlate/Rosso Scarlatto. Black Leather interior. SOLD :(
2008 (E60 LCI) BMW 525i M-Sport, 3.0 litre Petrol. Carbonschwarz Metallic. Black Dakota Leather and Myrtlewood interior.
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by jlmacd »

So, update....

Went back today for a second test drive. Unfortunately, had to go alone as my mechanic friend has taken poorly. As it turned out, I am glad I didn't waste his time.

Took the car out again, this time solo. Bearing in mind all the kindly advice given here, and despite trying to drive it more assertively, it still performed poorly. Had barely gone more than 300 yards when, "beeeep" ... on comes the DPF warning light (why this hadn't happened the day before, I don't know?) After about five minutes the light went off but, still, no better response in terms of performance. Game over!
Returned the car, explained what I had seen and the lack of power, etc. Got the ubiquitous, feigned look of surprise and 'oh, they said it had all been cleaned out, additive filled etc' and 'I had better get them to look at it again' spiel. All with an undercurrent of resigned 'couldn't care less' , I felt.

Walked away. The combined cost of rectifying the DPF and replacing the cambelt would probably double the, already inflated, asking price. And that is before tackling the list of items that were non functioning!

A great shame, as I had grown fond of the car and thought it a worthy replacement. But this particular specimen was just a potential money-pit. Best avoided.

Back to the search then..... only problem is that the clock is ticking for me. MOT expires end of next week on my GLX, so may have to 'make do' with something for now and chase the dream later.

A huge thank you to one and all for the kind assistance in every respect. I did check the insurance costs today regards the V6. Whilst, naturally, a lot more than for a 2.0l GLX, the difference between the 2.2HDi and the 3.0 V6 was surprisingly little. Then there is still the fuel and Road Tax to consider, I suppose.

This little foray into the world of diesel cars has been both illuminating and off putting at the same time. This DPF business seems like a loaded weapon to me.... my experience with this one was, hopefully, not typical of all diesels but certainly a worthwhile initial learrning curve. I shall keep an open mind!
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highlander
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by highlander »

Well that would explain the lack of power, at least.

I think you made the right choice in walking away. Good luck with your hunt!
2002 (D9) Peugeot 406 Coupe SE, 2.2 litre Petrol. Scarlet Red/Rouge Ecarlate/Rosso Scarlatto. Black Leather interior. SOLD :(
2008 (E60 LCI) BMW 525i M-Sport, 3.0 litre Petrol. Carbonschwarz Metallic. Black Dakota Leather and Myrtlewood interior.
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by GingerMagic »

I would agree.

The 2.2Hdi is a bit over engineered and over complicated for its time, and if its a first diesel car then its a steep learning curve. I've had mine for a few years so I kind of know what to expect, but I'm clueless with petrol engines....

Keep looking, maybe scour local Facebook car groups for a stop-gap until a nice 406 Coupe shows up... 8)
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1998 Volvo 940 auto estate - also mine
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by highlander »

Worth also keeping an eye on the "Coupes For Sale" section on the Coupe Club forums. Buying a car from a long-term member of the owner's club is generally a good move; chances are, they will have posted about any problems they may have had and how they solved it, and will generally have looked after their car better than someone who just bought it as a cheap means of getting about might.
2002 (D9) Peugeot 406 Coupe SE, 2.2 litre Petrol. Scarlet Red/Rouge Ecarlate/Rosso Scarlatto. Black Leather interior. SOLD :(
2008 (E60 LCI) BMW 525i M-Sport, 3.0 litre Petrol. Carbonschwarz Metallic. Black Dakota Leather and Myrtlewood interior.
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by Welly »

So THAT'S why it was for sale.

There's always a reason it's just finding out how big a reason it is and what risk it poses to you.

Sounds like the seller was doing their level best to conceal what they'd presumably been told was wrong with the car and how much it would cost :frown:
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Re: End of the road ?? Or a new start...

Post by highlander »

Thing is, the DPF issue is probably easily solved by someone who knows how to sort these. It might be that the DPF fluid tank is actually empty, they didn't really pay for it to be filled up (or they did, but got utterly fleeced), or that after filling the tank, the car hasn't been driven for long enough to get the system up to the correct temperature to begin DPF regeneration, so the filter has clogged.

The problem I would have with buying it anyway that the seller has clearly been economical with the truth. There is a problem with the car, and they were hoping you'd buy it before you noticed, so that it would become your problem and not theirs. So what else are they hiding about it?

If it was on sale for half that price, then that's fair enough, but depending on where you look, you can pick up a full factory-built SE spec HDi for under £1000.
2002 (D9) Peugeot 406 Coupe SE, 2.2 litre Petrol. Scarlet Red/Rouge Ecarlate/Rosso Scarlatto. Black Leather interior. SOLD :(
2008 (E60 LCI) BMW 525i M-Sport, 3.0 litre Petrol. Carbonschwarz Metallic. Black Dakota Leather and Myrtlewood interior.
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