Which 406 would be for me?

[no2lurch]

I'm looking at returning to the 406 fold, but I'm a little unsure if i should.

In the past i had a 2.2 petrol sri estate and i loved it but it was too thirsty so i sold it. I really did enjoy driving it though from a comfort and performance point of view. I then went to a 106 derv as a stop gap and to save money and then onto my current car of a ph 3 1.8 petrol 306. I'm selling this due to it being lowered (bought like it) as as i have a family, the car doesnt like being fully loaded up. It catches on speed bumps and the arches rub on full lock!

Therfore i'm looking at going back to a 406. doesnt have to be an estate as i believe the boots are pretty big and could accomadate all our tat, folded buggy included.

As to which model and spec, it all boils down to money. I want a car that is comfortable to drive, has a bit of pull due to it being used as a work horse at times pulling a trailer and general hauler, and cheap as possible to insure.

What are the 1.8 petrols like? I'm concerned about have that engine in a fairly large car - are they underpowered? What about the diesels - I've never had a diesel 406 and dont know much about them - are the 1.9s good performance wise, and what about running them on veg oil or remapping/tuning them?

Any pointers woiuld be gratefully recieved.

[highlander]

What are the 1.8 petrols like? I'm concerned about have that engine in a fairly large car - are they underpowered?

Yes. Oh, God yes. The 1.8 petrol is utterly bulletproof, it never goes wrong - but it's totally gutless. You're on a twisty A-road and need to overtake some granny doing 45 (max) in her (inevitable) Nissan Micra? Forget it - you don't have a chance of overtaking unless you're on a good long straight with no oncoming traffic.

Christ knows what the 1.6 petrol would've been like

Minimum size petrol engine for the 406 should've been 2.0.

What about the diesels - I've never had a diesel 406 and dont know much about them - are the 1.9s good performance wise, and what about running them on veg oil or remapping/tuning them?

General consensus is that for running veg oil, the best 406 would be the 2.1TD retro-fitted with the Bosch fuel pump from the 1.9TD. The 2.1TD was factory-fitted with a Lucas EPIC fuel pump which was of poor design and quality, and was incapable of pumping WVO without killing itself.

The HDi engines are smoother and return better fuel economy on pump diesel fuel. However, you can't run them on WVO at all - the HDi engines deliver atomized diesel fuel into the cylinders under VERY high pressure, and with high pressure comes tight tolerances on the density of the fuel and the energy content. Even some biofuels are meant to be bad for the HDi, but I understand that this is a matter of some debate.

In terms of fuel economy, the HDi 110 is meant to be best. The HDi 90 is a bit underpowered - it has more torque than the 1.8 petrol (wouldn't be hard) but has lower horsepower (90 HP vs. 118 HP).

In terms of bang-for-buck, you'll want an HDi 136 (2.2 litre). Firstly, these have 136 HP as stock, but they also come with the dreaded FAP (a diesel particulate filter, which is a form of anti-pollution device that has a fatal flaw - it really doesn't like short runs in and around town; the FAP filter clogs up and you get limp home mode). You'll want to enlist the help of Doggy to get that sucker bashed out and get the engine remapped. Hey presto, better fuel economy and about 180 HP as well. Secondly, the HDi 136 is a 16 valve engine; both the HDi 90 and HDi 110 are 8 valvers.

Execs in both estate and saloon versions were available with the 2.2 HDi engine; you should be on the lookout for a car with Executive trim level. Because if you get hooked back on 406s again, and end up with one with cloth seats and fewer toys than the Exec, you might find yourself trying to retrofit the seats and toys and either winning (but spending a lot of money in the process) or losing (and spending a lot of money in the process). Trust me, I've been there!

Additionally, the Coupe was also available with the same 2.2 HDi as fitted to the saloon and estate. The Coupe also has quite a big boot (it's the same length and width as the saloon boot, but it's not quite as deep), though if you get a Coupe with SE trim, access to the rear seats is a bit sluggish as you have to pull the front seat forward and wait for the seat motor to move the front seat out of the way. Not great if you've got small kids with child seats, especially in the pissing rain. The Silver & Black Edition Coupes came in 2.2 HDi and 2.2 petrol versions, and had half-leather seats with manual movement - so access to the rear seats is much faster. The S&B half-leather trim is also quite nice to look at and quite comfortable, much nicer than the cloth seats fitted to S trim Coupes. The only downside to the S&B Coupe is that they were only available in Granite Black (nice!) and Satellite Grey (yawn!)

[no2lurch]

thanks for the reply. whats insurance like on the diesels? is there a 2.0 petrol?

[rwb]

Good answer Highlander.

There is a 2.0 petrol, and like the 1.8 I hear lots of praise for it.

What I will say for the HDi 90 over the 110 is: no dual mass flywheel, and the Siemens system (02 ish onwards) has no in-tank pump. And don't be frightenened by COM2000 -- just don't get a very early one (51-plate) and check that the stalks aren't floppy.

What mileage are you likely to do no2lurch? And under what conditions -- lots of short journeys or fewer long journeys? (My feeling is that the HDis need to be used.)

The 1.9D seem to be quite expensive, maybe because of the veg oil ability. The 2.2 HDi also seem expensive; I'm told they're popular with people who tow things.
Here are some 2.2 HDis!
The HDi 90 and 110 seem to be in plentiful supply at the moment.

[no2lurch]

well i work 2 days a week and the office is nearly a 50 mile round trip on fast ish roads - motorway or 40-60mph roads.

other than that its mostly in and around town trips.

[highlander]

50 miles two days a week is good. Should be plenty to get the engine up to temperature, especially if there's some dual-carriageway or motorway involved.

[Welly]

For ease of ownership I'd go for a 90bhp.

Then later if you like it get it remapped to 120bhp.

During my 110's ownership I had the in-tank pump go (£150.00), the engine mount went (£100.00) which then made the engine move too much and tear through the intercooler hose I had numerous Engine Light moments, the radiator fan went (£120.00) the bottom pulley went (£150.00), the EGR valve went (£ loosing count), the whole eggsauce system was replaced in stages over about 2 years including the expensive downpipe/flexi/CAT piece, the clutch/dmf slipped and lastly it developed a diesel leak which I couldn't find.

I don't know why I had so many problems when everyone else's 110's seemed solid. I did discover that mine had previously been used for international caravan towing holidays the car shop I bought it from had removed the tow bar one thing I would say is that my 110 was *fast* quite impressively so I even rang the previous owner to ask if he'd had it remapped (which he hadn't) but it was a quick one

[no2lurch]

can the 90 run on veg? how easy is it to get a 90 remapped? expensive? what other things can be done to improve performance?

[Welly]

You can't run high-pressure common rail systems on Veggy, the old XUD 1.9 of 1996 to 1998 can run on veg but even that's a balancing act between mixing it with diesel so it stars properly etc.

To get a 'proper' remap done by a reputable company would probably be £300.00? the cheapo 'box of tricks' things you see around should be avoided - they just tell the fuel pump to run at higher pressure all the time

[rwb]

You can't even run a HDi on 100% biodiesel

The earlier 90 with the Bosch system (with in-tank pump) should be DIY remap-able with 'Galletto' cables -- if you can get a map. The later Siemens system (no in-tank pump) must be done professionally because the ECU must be physically removed to flash.

Try a de-cat? Leave the box in, but empty it out. I have no idea what difference -- if any -- this would make. And you're supposed to tell your insurance company who will undoubtedly gouge you...

Maybe the best way to get more power is to get a 110 instead?! The 90 is cheap and slow; the 110 slightly less so. Take your pick!

[gumby6371]

For me it has to be the 1.9td

My current car was bought for £600 with 90,000 on the clock in tidy condition, it's taken me and the family on holiday over the welsh mountains and other than the need for a 6th gear I can't fault it.
The first one I owned had been neglected and had 170K on the clock but just kept going, the new one had been looked after and you can tell when you put your foot down it has way more power.

Fully comp insurance for me is a touch over £300 with 5 years ncb, she gives me 38-40 around town and on a 50/50 veg mix in the summer that goes to the high 40's cost equivalent.
Don't do a lot of distance driving but I'd say mid 50's mpg on derv then add 10-15% on a veg mix pennies wise.

It's not a ferrari but will keep up with most things from the lights once you learn your turbo and isn't too bad for over taking, saying that my old one was a lot slower so you need to drive a few before you buy.

Personally I would chop it in for a remapped 2.2 coupe but not sure how much I'd get for car+mrs+kids???

[waue1978]

In the past i had a 2.2 petrol sri estate and i loved it but it was too thirsty so i sold it. I really did enjoy driving it though from a comfort and performance point of view.

If you can find it, my old red 110 should still have your old interior giving you what you loved about your one & the economy you craved.

Last seen somewhere in North London...

[scotty73]

This reply might be of interest if your thinking of a 110.
it's winter, some of you may have noticed this recently and i normally top up once a fortnight but last Monday after a 100+ mile towing a caravan i topped up and worked out my mpg's (just under 30 mpg it was 29.something)

So after another week all around town we had done 108 miles all school runs and trips to asda/tesco that sort of thing 32.9mpg... Little bit better on the eye but when you consider the first 100+ miles were done in 2 journeys 50 miles each way towing over 1000kgs (and with ease i must say) the around town mpg is pish poor.

Thats's winter... ok ok it's supposedly spring but feels colder than it was December/January time.

Summer: Remember that? it's when that yellow thing called the sun sometimes comes out and it rains all the time.
I've not compared towing to town in the warmer months because we went away in the tent a lot last year but even fully loaded with a roof box on we never got a return less than 44mpg.....My mrs done 54mpg 180 mile round trip over the new year with exactly the same gear/people on board.... i think her right shoe weighs less than mine.

around town is about 38/40mpg.

So would i have bought the 406 if i knew what i know now? Yes because back then i had read nothing about how comfy they are, my family and dog are to big for anything else I'd buy and i know that if i needed to go on a long run it would cost a lot less than most cars.

[trufflehunt]

Hundreds of thousands of taxi drivers, as of a few years ago, can't be wrong. A 406 diesel.

A few weeks ago, I spent an unanticipated few days in hospital. Had a taxi home., in a Berlingo.
The driver and I chatted. He mentioned that his recently departed car had been a 406 diesel.
He only decided to sell it when it started to cost significant amounts of money to maintain.
Replacement flywheel, and some other things were mentioned. When he moved it on it had
255,000 on the clock.

He thought 406's were the bees knees. However, as a commercial proposition the right time to
sell a car is just before, or shortly after, it starts to cost real money to maintain.

On my own car..., HDI 110, I've seen 62mpg quite easily on steady motorway runs, and can reach the 50mpg
mixed driving average quoted for this car .. without much difficulty. I wouldn't even consider a petrol one.

[no2lurch]

just out of interest, whats the power of a 2.0 petrol and rough mpg figures?