It's time to move on

[waue1978]

Rich has started a bit of a trend here.

Who's going to be the first to hit the 200bhp mark in their deFAPped HDi then...



& that 408 is basically a 308 saloon. Just looked at the pics & the interior is identical.

[Doggy]

Does seem to be a bit of a trend.
Looks very nice, Alex and such low mileage.
I can well understand the attraction and hope it's as good a friend to you as your 406's have been, (present difficulties apart).

The 407 is the logical successor. You get far more car for your money than just about any other alternative. TBH the 'SW' has enough room in the back for our brace of cavaliers and I was pleasantly surprised by how comfy Richard's felt, (even without the 406-style armrest on seat feature I'm so fond of).
The DW12B, has an 1800 bar fuel system with piezo injectors good for 9 injections / cycle and of course the twin turbo setup, it really ought to be good for a lot more than 170 horses, (and I'm conident it will be).
I found the interior of the C5 oppressively dark, hated the electric handbrake and was scared off by the hydra wotsit suspension.....
The 508 in manual diesel estate guise, offers a choice of two 1.6 no-go areas.
The only other thing I'd consider MIGHT be a late mondeo-in-drag x-type estate. (My research so far has determined that very recent Frod/Jugular/Landgrabbers do have a semi-genuine DW12, even if it is thrown together in Dagenham, whereas earlier cars were afflicted by the 2198cc Puma TDCi. It appears 2008-on versions might have an engine, but no chance of a twin turbo).

- Think I'll keep this one for a bit.

[oldskoolskool]

Rich has started a bit of a trend here.

Who's going to be the first to hit the 200bhp mark in their deFAPped HDi then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VzUxDz5atI

p.s. someone on the coupe forum has fitted the 3 bar map sensor, 1800 bar fuel pressure sensor, as well as oil cooler and new turbo in preperation for this

[Welly]

......do have a semi-genuine DW12, even if it is thrown together in Dagenham, whereas earlier cars were afflicted by the 2198cc Puma TDCi.

Funny isn't it how engines are crossing over between brands very frequently, soon it'll be hard to know where your engine originates from.

True story from my Mechanic: a *hardened* Japanese car fan customer of theirs proudly rolled up in a Nissan only to be told that his engine was a Renault unit, they assumed he knew this...........the man cried!....I mean tears and everything

[mjb]

The 407 is the logical successor. You get far more car for your money than just about any other alternative

I dunno; if you start looking at cars with bigger engines, you can get an awful lot of car for very little money because everyone's convinced they cost a fortune to run. They also tend to be the models with all the toys too.

BMW 530i, 535i, 540i, Jaguar XJ8, Mazda RX8 go for around £2000-3000. There's currently about 400 V6 cars on ebay for under £1500 and the £3000+ change would be plenty to cover the extra repairs, fuel and insurance (if you've not got big red flags against you). Or if you want to go nuts, the BMW M5, Nissan 350Z, Porsche Boxter, Jaguar XK8 just scrape in at the same price as the diesel 407

Just don't try looking for a manual BMW 540i estate - they're rare as rocking horse sh*t and I think I've managed to get the only unmodified one in the country

[rwb]

There's a 508 manual with the DW10 wound up to 163.
Saw one at £8k but too dear for me.
I suspect though that the interior is hideously dark like the C5, plus I dont like buttons on the steering wheel.

The light interior of the 407 was an important factor when looking at different models. Actually, that's what swung it for my first 406.

[Captain Jack]

The 407 is the logical successor. You get far more car for your money than just about any other alternative

I dunno; if you start looking at cars with bigger engines, you can get an awful lot of car for very little money because everyone's convinced they cost a fortune to run. They also tend to be the models with all the toys too.

Correct. And I have looked at BMWs - diesels, of course. I, nor my wallet, could live with a petrol engine. Premium cars demand premium prices for parts and labour. It's the same what Clarkson and May were doing a few years ago - bought some top-spec 2nd hand V12 BMW and a Merc for 6-7k, which then broke down costing an earth to repair

[Bailes1992]

Petrol engined car with a good quality LPG kit fitted?

[Captain Jack]

Er... isn't easier to just get a diesel then?

[Welly]

I'd rather have a 10 year old Petrol V8 than a 10 year old multi-cylinder diesel any day.

[rapport25]

Yes, Welly I have to agree. Get in on lpg then double your mpg :-):-):-).

[mjb]

Correct. And I have looked at BMWs - diesels, of course. I, nor my wallet, could live with a petrol engine. Premium cars demand premium prices for parts and labour. It's the same what Clarkson and May were doing a few years ago - bought some top-spec 2nd hand V12 BMW and a Merc for 6-7k, which then broke down costing an earth to repair

Ah supercars, or close to, do cost a fortune to repair - which they will need, but I'm not talking about exotics (apart from when I said "if you want to go nuts").

High-end regular cars (5-series, A6/8, Merc...) don't suffer from that - they're very much like the price hike of maintaining a 406 V6 over a 406 hdi - that is to say there's virtually no difference apart from the cost of a cambelt kit. And if you're doing a lot of motorway miles at vaguely legal speeds, you'll never make up the cost of a diesel over a petrol which is much cheaper to buy. If you're doing 100 miles a day in traffic, I'd go with a diesel though

[Captain Jack]

Well, BMW and Mercs cost a fortune in parts - be it petrol or a diesel.

I tried a 2.2L petrol 407 a few months ago - I thought the thing was broken. It felt so gutless - I had to rev every nut and bolt off it to make it move. Similarly, a hired VW Shitta 2.5L petrol in the States was just as broken - the slushmatic didn't help it one bit. There was some other 3.5L V6 Pontiac thing, which didn't feel anything special either. OK, I haven't driven petrols since my MK4 Fiesta back in 1999 so maybe there's a knack to them? Don't know.

Running cost wise - I am not so sure. Yes, the purchase price is probably a third cheaper than a diesel and diesel prices are a few pence above petrol (in UK only, mind you) but driving cars like I do, I wouldn't go above 25mpg in a petrol - any petrol, let alone a huge V6/V8 one. In a diesel, I struggle to get below 40mpg. That's using almost half the fuel! LPG? Well, unless you buy the car with it installed, it would cost up to £2000, so you might as well get a diesel.

Oh and tax costs due to CO2 malarkey. My girlfriend's 59 plate Suzuki Swift 1.5 petrol costs just as much to tax as it does my Peugeot. I certainly have far more fun in mine. A V6 petrol tax is astronomical....

Diesel every time for me - for now. Maybe these tiny turbo charged petrols will make me change my mind? Maybe - but I don't want to

[Welly]

Petrol Turbo is the way to go Cap'n, my Volvo is brutal, I get instant power, mega torque from 1500rpm and then plenty of BHP to keep pushing forward. It's supremely quiet, clean and simple. I am never having a diesel unless I find myself doing loads of miles. My next car will be a Turbo Petrol for sure.

Saying this, I have a 5-cylinder 2.5L which is classed as 'ridiculous' by most these days

[trem1]

Well i'm biased towards the 407 as i'm on my second, what advice i would use is Rwb's as he's a new owner so still very aware of his 406.
Apart from well known problems both my 407's have been very reliable i'm not aware of any problems with the 2.2 Hdi but you will quickly find any if you ask in the right places