Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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Doggy
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by Doggy »

I guess you have write your own rules for this one.
Since you're only switching the clutch supply there's no compelling reason to use the existing relay unless you really want to.
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arber333
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 »

Car has automatic AC. I think it is in my interest to keep everything as OEM as possible. Save for AC compressor and its drive i think everything including the pressostat will remain the same.
I intend to drive compressor via my Volt inverter rear (aux) controller. I think it can drive up to 25Arms and that should be enough for 3 - 5kW cooling power.
I made a simple interface to start compressor with a single 12V pulse (AC clutch). Then compressor spools up in about a second or two. Also when signal off is used compressor will spool down slowly. System works in my workshop but i need to install new pipes and hoses and fill it with gas to test in ernest.
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 »

Good news! I was at the TUV (MOT inspection) and the car was generaly good. They raised some findings though. Mainly on some of my finishing work. I have to present them with evidence i repaired that and my car will be legal.

The one finding i recognised the most serious is the "open door beeper". Regulation says it needs to beep if key is ON and doors are open. This is to notify the driver of the working vehicle since EV does not produce any sound when standing still.
Originaly Pug has a beeper which does beep once if you open the door, but that is not enough. Sound needs to be continuous.

My plan is to fit a piezo speeker under the drivers seat and it will be wired to ignition and to the door.
My only problem is how the door knows it is open? I cant see any switches on the door or on the frame. Does anyone know of where that would be located?

I need to connect to incoming side of the switch and my beeper will chime..
Or maybe i need to connect the the door light under/inside the door? It is only lit when door is open is it not?
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by steve_earwig »

That's serious? To me that's a modern idea, most of the cars I have ever owned didn't have that and I can't see why it would be much of a safety issue, more like a "you're an idiot" reminder :roll:

The switches are in the door lock, I think there are two per lock (one to say if it's open, one to say if it's locked - the memory fades :( ) but I'm sure it would be easiest to fit a buzzer across the courtesy lights (or would the BSI throw a wobbly because of the fader? Ah crap :x )
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arber333
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 »

Yes i found out the door light connector and spliced my chime into it. The only negative side is that it chimes all the time when i have the doors open. I will need to find a turned key positive wire. I see window buttons only work when key is turned. So my plan is to connect to the supply wire for that.
That should reduce annoyance to a minimum.

In other news i found out what was bothering my Pug drivetrain. It was not only a bearing support.
The left inside CV joint has a halfh siezed bearing. In by itself i couldnt determine that since the wheels had so little resistance when lifted up. It was only when my friend an i tried to rotate both wheels simultaneously we noticed the LH side was grabbing the differential. I noticed a slight tick in the CV joint when turning outside of allignment. I guess this was something that was declaring itself before failure.
I will need to take that CV apart, inspect the bearings and the outer surface. Maybe it will be enough to just replace the one bearing. If not i will need to change the whole Leaf CV bucket.
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 »

I will definitely need to wire DCDC enable signal directly to second key position. Now i have it at "start" position and this coupled with large drain of starting hydraulic pump creates quite large pulses in 12V system. I need to first connect DCDC and only then start the car and its systems.
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Re: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Post by steve_earwig »

So it's happy with the pulses once it's up and running, ok. Is the second position accessories?

Even on conventional cars, seeing as how modern electronics are so sensitive to voltage, I'm surprised they can cope with the voltage drop while the starter is running without having a nervous breakdown. Big capacitors?
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by frog »

Most of the electronics are in fact running on 5 Volt, fed by a voltage converter 12 -> 5 Volt. The converter needs least around 6 Volt and can handle at least up to 20 Volts. E.g. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... VW-VMOfAlh
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater - just hit 690.000 kms :cheesy:
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by steve_earwig »

I know most of the sensors etc. run on 5 volts but the ecu's (ecm, bsi) run on the full battery, if the voltage drops you start getting all sorts of weird errors.
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arber333
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 »

Yeah... Just in the last couple of days i was rigging 12V battery with integral charger, like a sustainer.
Well of course i managed to drain it totaly. BUT now when i recharged it i have a problem! My radio is allways ON. I mean i can turn it off, but when i start the car and shut it down radio would play on unless i shut it off with a button. Is there something wrong with the radio or BSI?

EDIT: Very strange, i just went and pulled the 12V cable from the battery to shut down everything in the car. So now radio shuts down normaly. Everything is good again...

A
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 »

YUP! My Pug is road legal now. I got the plates yesterday.

Also i managed to overheat battery while pulling over 400A at start repeatedly. I need to measure 1/4 mile performance :).
I will need to get a battery with enough juice to last 200km.

This doesnt mean end of work though. I still need to make the pipes for AC and install compressor so i would have AC working.
Also i have to figure how to get the fuel gauge working for me instead against me :(. I mean it is just a rheostat. But there seems to be no sophisticated control! I am not sure how to approach this grass roots technology with state of the art uC. 8) .
Last edited by arber333 on Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
frog
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by frog »

Congrats! Well done! Good work :D

I guess the 1/4 mile performance is "slightly" better compared to the original fossil-fuel engine? :wink:
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater - just hit 690.000 kms :cheesy:
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.
arber333
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 »

frog wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:05 pm Congrats! Well done! Good work :D

I guess the 1/4 mile performance is "slightly" better compared to the original fossil-fuel engine? :wink:
Not yet! Only up to some 80km/h then batteries suffer. I got it repeatable up to 140km/h, but then i ran out of straight road. I want it to be 10s car. Remember i still have one side of inverter unused. That is another 100kW untapped. 8)
Now before other testing i still need to solve my CV joint. Also I need to get some more battery to keep the konstant power running!
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 »

I did some testing at speed with my "new" Pug. There are some interesting data.
At speed of 110km/h my motor consumes 42A at 378Vdc = 16kW for level road.
At 130km/h however motor needs 80A at 378Vdc = 30kW on the same stretch of road

I went to max 150km/h speed and the car would pull more, but i reached the battery limit at 420A, so 355Vdc * 420A = 149kW!!! Really good.
Of course at that speed motor would turn over 10000RPM and consume quite a lot for itself due to windage losses and field weakening required for that speeds. The battery is from Chevy Volt of course. This can provide a lot of power, but range is only some 50km, the same as in Ampera really.

Frog can you help?
I found out motor does heat up, though over longer stretch of road. So i need to implement some automatic cooling. I figure i can do with 1/2 fan speed. Frog do you know where i could reach command line to innitiate halfh speed command. Now I can only do full speed command from pressostat. That is too much power and quite noisy. On schematic i see power going through 2 relays. 1508 and 1514 with two 1506 resistors in between.
So if i understood schematic i could pull 1514 relay and only run one side to reach halfh speed on fans. Or leave pressostat 3rd pin open. Would that be correct of is my plan wrong?
It seems BSM also measures voltage drop across those resistors so it could figure relay has gone bad...

tnx
frog
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by frog »

Wow! Good job! :cheesy:

I can understand the increase of power from 110 km/h to 130 km/h, but going to 149 kW for 150 km/h seems too much. My 110 HDI is 110 HP (duh) so 80 kW, and it can easily do 150 km/h

Instead of fighting the heat using large fans, maybe it is better to prevent the heat buildup (and loss of power) in the first place?

Anyway: it seems like there are two relays to control the speed. As i read it: 1508 is for low speed (1 resistor) and 1514 is for "intermediate" speed (2 resistors in parallel). 1509 gives full power to the fan: all resistors bypassed, i.e. high speed.

I'm not sure but i think 1514 and 1508 are actually two relays within one enclosure.
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Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater - just hit 690.000 kms :cheesy:
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.
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