Power Folding Mirrors

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waue1978
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Power Folding Mirrors

Post by waue1978 »

Had a look through & all I can find are people saying that theirs don't work, that you can't set them to automatically fold & one guy asking if they can be fitted but getting no reply.

What would be involved in fitting powerfolding mirrors to a car that didn't originally have them? Is it a plug in & add the window/mirror control unit or does it involve spaghetti junction wiring & extra relays?
2000/X Peugeot 406 110 HDi LX Family 93k to 2000/W BMW 530D SE Auto 84k to 2003/03 Peugeot Partner Hdi Escapade 98k to 2003/53 Vauxhall Zafira DTi Elegance 74k

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Welly
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by Welly »

I think the biggest problem here is people having folders but not realising (eh stevie?) :lol:

Apart from the turny-round switch and the mirror carcass itself I suppose maybe telling the BSi about them (configuring?)??

Oh, then there's the bit that 'remembers' where the mirrors are set (the under-seat ECU) so they might do odd things every time you switch on the ignition (and they don't need much encouragement to do odd things at the best of times :roll: ).

So, to recall, I don't have a cooking flue :oops:
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by steve_earwig »

Welly wrote:I think the biggest problem here is people having folders but not realising (eh stevie?) :lol:
I can't help it if my handbook's in Italian :oops: :oops:

I can't see why the BSI would be involved (that's not saying it won't be of course).
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by FarmerPug »

my mirrors are the foldiey job and i use them frequently, there is elecrical gubbins in the seat that recalls the positon of the seat and mirror, ive taken a video of them so heres a bit of multimedia:
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by stealthe »

I've been looking at this, and as far as I can see it's fairly simple to get the folding working, and even to auto-fold with the ignition.
The motors simply need 12v in one direction to fold and reverse the current to unfold.
This could be achieved using a pair of relays to reverse the flow and either a switch or a relay to operate them manually or automatically.
If you automated them, then you could add a switch to fold them manually if required.
At its most basic, two relays and an ignition switched feed would give you auto-fold mirrors, although they would stay live all the time, and 'could' result in a flat battery.
The most basic system would need two SPDT, 5 pin relays, a permanent 12v supply, a switched supply (ignition or manual) and an earth.
I will ignore the switched supply and describe the wiring for the mirrors. There are two wires from each mirror but you can splice them so that only two wires arrive at the relays, not four.
So two wires from the mirrors arrive at two relays and one wire connects to each relay, on the common terminal labelled 30 (3).
On one relay the NC (normally closed) terminal, labelled 87a (4), is connected to the permanent 12v supply and the NO (normally open) terminal, labelled 87 (5), is attached to earth.
On the other relay the NC terminal is connected to earth and the NO is attached to the permanent 12v supply. This is the folded position.
When power is applied to the coil, terminals 85,86 (1,2), via the switched supply, the relays switch over, reversing the flow and the mirrors unfold. Cut the switched power and the mirrors fold.
I believe the mirrors have limit switches, so the motors stop when fully open or closed.
The circuit could be enhanced, by adding a switch for manual control.
The wires on the mirrors can be picked up on the connector in the door and would only need a light cable to connect to the relays, speaker wire should be sufficient, and would
be easy to route through the car.

Can anyone see a problem with that, or draw a diagram to illustrate it? Any improvements?

stealthe

Edited to add terminal no's for pug mini relays (1-5 in brackets) as seen here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14960#p142528
Last edited by stealthe on Fri May 06, 2011 9:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by steve_earwig »

Mine malfunctioned today - one in & one out. I'd like to get to them to do some preventative maintenance - you know, slop some silicon grease in there before they wear out or break & I can't get any spares - but I'm too worried I'd break them doing it.

So, if the mirror has a limit switch to cut the power at the end of its travel how does it get going again when you reverse the polarity?
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by stealthe »

Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology, it may not have a 'switch' as such. When I apply power to the motor it runs to the stop position, open or closed and stops.
If I then break the power supply and remake it, the mirror unit clicks,hums,clicks and goes silent in the space of 0.5 sec or so.
Tested with a bulb in line it will not run, the bulb glows briefly, then goes out. Current limiting?
I'm working with random, loose bits of wire and a small sla battery, not a complete car, so I'm not testing it in the real world. I'm just trying to help.

So.

I 'think' that there is some 'mechanism' (doo-hicky, whatnot, thingy, sorcery)(other than a physical block) that stops the motor running at a specific point in each direction, to prevent damage to the motor.

If someone with a working set of folding mirrors on the car wants to test theirs then geat, otherwise I'm just working with what I have here.

stealthe

BTW the motor/gearbox looks pretty well sealed from here.
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by steve_earwig »

I won't try to take them to bits then, cheers.

Nah, you asked if anyone could see any problems. I guess there's something that tells the motor it's stopped spinning like the windows, or it could be a timer (would make sense with what mine did earlier - I turned it too far, turned it back and had one in & one out). Just as long as it's in the motor and not in the door switch.
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - it's fixed! Shame about the rider...
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM (Anti-Theft Mechanism) LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - it weighs a ton!
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by stealthe »

If you do feel like taking your mirrors apart, most of the screws are torx t20, there are three fixing the mirror to the door.
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After removing the glass,by pressing the wire clip,
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there are three screws that hold the surround and motor together.
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Once they are out the surround has a clip on the inside of the hinge, out of sight,
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a little wiggle and pull straight back and mine separated.
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Behind the circular mirror mount, at about the 2 or 10o'clock position is a clip holding the front shell.
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Unclip it and rotate the shell forwards 90 degrees and it will lift up off the frame of the mirror.
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There are two gold coloured screws holding the frame to the fold motor/gearbox. Take them out and lift the frame up.
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On the underside of the door mount is a clip on panel covering more screws holding the gearbox to the door mount.
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The motor/gearbox looks to be welded or glued rather than screwed or clipped, I didn't try to separate them.

The painted section of the front shell can be separated fairly easily once the shell is off the frame, so you can swap them on replacement mirrors, or for repainting.
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There are three flat clips along the bottom, and three taller clips higher up. The top bits are for alignment.
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Reassembly is a reversal of the above!

stealthe
Last edited by stealthe on Sun May 08, 2011 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by mjb »

The hardest part in all this is acquiring two mirrors with a working folding mechanism... As stealthe says above, the motor ain't replaceable but a lot of the time the problem is broken plastic

There's also a mechanism for position detection which is often broken, which is essential otherwise the mirrors will try to put themselves through either the side window or the windscreen :shock: OK maybe not that extreme, but they can bend forwards a hell of a lot to the point you can't actually see the glass, and they make nasty noises as they try to rip themselves apart... They're powered by the seat ECU so there's no quick or easy way of stopping themselves from destroying themselves...
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by highlander »

Are the Coupe wing mirrors meant to fold in?

Mine's a 2002 SE, and don't do it automatically. My car didn't come with its handbook.
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by FarmerPug »

you have to do it manually in my exec by turning the nob to the top then they fold in but i see the 407 does it when it gets locked.
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by stealthe »

mjb wrote:The hardest part in all this is acquiring two mirrors with a working folding mechanism... As stealthe says above, the motor ain't replaceable but a lot of the time the problem is broken plastic

There's also a mechanism for position detection which is often broken, which is essential otherwise the mirrors will try to put themselves through either the side window or the windscreen :shock: OK maybe not that extreme, but they can bend forwards a hell of a lot to the point you can't actually see the glass, and they make nasty noises as they try to rip themselves apart... They're powered by the seat ECU so there's no quick or easy way of stopping themselves from destroying themselves...
Hmmmm.... Is it possible to fit a replacement limit switch in the plastic of the door mount, or the shell of the mirror above the pivot point? It would need a couple of extra wires and my relay circuit.
The limit circuit I'm thinking of is basically the same as your stair/hallway lights, where two switches control one light. Two microswitches set the limits, one in each direction, and the relays reversing the current also switch the circuit.

Need to put my mirror back together and check the space!

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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by peo »

This conversation is very interesting, I want to mount folding mirrors in my sr 406 pack.
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Re: Power Folding Mirrors

Post by highlander »

406executiveHDI wrote:you have to do it manually in my exec by turning the nob to the top then they fold in but i see the 407 does it when it gets locked.
Thanks for that! Mine work perfectly :cheesy:

It would have been cool for them to fold in when the central locking is engaged.
2002 (D9) Peugeot 406 Coupe SE, 2.2 litre Petrol. Scarlet Red/Rouge Ecarlate/Rosso Scarlatto. Black Leather interior. SOLD :(
2008 (E60 LCI) BMW 525i M-Sport, 3.0 litre Petrol. Carbonschwarz Metallic. Black Dakota Leather and Myrtlewood interior.
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