Page 1 of 2
going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:26 pm
by johntl
I've done some mig welding a long time ago, but was was wondering if tig was the best way to go ??
with the new MOT rules about major fails need to be fixed there and then, not giving you chance to get it sorted before MOT due date!!
I know there is some very thin bits on the sills will be pulled !, thought as off work for a while I'd give it a go
TIG OR MIG ?????
Ps ALL THE BEST IN THE NEW YEAR
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:05 pm
by dirtydirtydiesel
Mig's the easiest & best for car bodywork
I've been doing it for my profession for over the last thirty years
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:36 pm
by johntl
Thanks for your pro input , so its whether to afford a cheap fluxed core mig or hire one .
I see you can get a cheap one with good reviews for about £80 ??
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:08 am
by PeterN
Having never had rust in a 406 before, I took the wife's in for MOT a couple of months ago and he spied a small hole in the sill, after he had investigated it most of it was laying on the floor. I debated whether to have it repaired but in view of the rest of the car being OK and the ridiculous price of a replacement now I decided to go ahead.
I don't get on well with welding thin metal so I let my friendly local garage do it, He made up a new sill section, welded in and painted it all for less than £200 including the MOT! The job he did was superb.
He has a very fancy TIG welder I think it is but his skill is probably the main factor.
I wish you every success with yours.
Peter
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:02 pm
by dirtydirtydiesel
johntl wrote: ↑Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:36 pm
Thanks for your pro input , so its whether to afford a cheap fluxed core mig or hire one .
I see you can get a cheap one with good reviews for about £80 ??
It all depends on how much you think you'll use it in the future.
I bought one for home when I was sixteen
& it still work great (S.I.P) If it helps
Doesn't get much use these days but when I bought it I was restoring a mini
So lot's of use
You can T.I.G a car, you can gas weld / braze even stick weld a car, I've done it all
But M.I.G is the simplest & easiest
Have a look on YouTube for Bad Obsession Motorsport & watch their choice of welding type for bodywork
All I'll say is cheep gasless welders will do the job but will make it harder, (To do a nice job).
But you'll probably be grinding most of it off anyway depending on how you choose to carry out the repair.
ie: full patch over the top, cut out rot & weld in from behind (lap, but or joggeled joint) then fill or replacement panel ?
I strongly suggest that you practice, practice, practice on material the same as you'll be welding & in the same position
Welding lying on you back in the cold/damp is a lot harder than on the bench
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:32 am
by PeterN
I use a gas less one because I do most of my welding outside and the wind tends to blow the gas away.
Peter
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:23 pm
by steve_earwig
But you can't put a fire out with a gas-less mig
I've had a Clarke Pro-90 amp (gas) mig for probably getting on for 30 years, it's been used for all sorts of things, not just rusty cars. I'm just about to make some stairs with it, although I'm secretly hoping it goes bang and gives me the excuse to buy something more powerful
Perhaps not the best place to start if you've never done any welding before, although the level of engineering, fabrication and downright madness is well worth watching. There are lots of other how-to's on Youtube that won't make you feel like you need to be a brain surgeon...
Got any links for the welders you are perusing? How powerful it is will depend on your budget but you need something that goes down to say 30 amps or you'll blow holes in everything.
I started out by renting but they were generally ruins, getting my own was a revelation on how easy it was using a welder that actually worked how it was meant to.
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:17 am
by PeterN
For any substantial welding I still use my 40 year old stick welder, I get on much better with that - probably because I have had more practise with it.
Peter
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:47 pm
by dirtydirtydiesel
steve_earwig wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:23 pm
But you can't put a fire out with a gas-less mig
I've had a Clarke Pro-90 amp (gas) mig for probably getting on for 30 years, it's been used for all sorts of things, not just rusty cars. I'm just about to make some stairs with it, although I'm secretly hoping it goes bang and gives me the excuse to buy something more powerful
Perhaps not the best place to start if you've never done any welding before, although the level of engineering, fabrication and downright madness is well worth watching. There are lots of other how-to's on Youtube that won't make you feel like you need to be a brain surgeon...
Steve,
I was mearly trying to point out that people that build rally car's ect for a living welding of choice is M.I.G for bodywork
Also the welding of choice of over 95% of professional car restorers.
I totally agree that for the novice, gasless is the best choice.
But then unless you plan / want to do more in the future, so is paying someone to do it vs £150.00 + on kit.
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:28 am
by johntl
Yes it makes me think about which way to go ?
I would like to do it myself but ! !!!!
I don't have a garage to work in
2 its winter
3 I'm 63 nearly
4 I've found a bloke that will do both sills for £200 ?????
5 It would still cost me about £100 for both sills on e-bay wether I did it or not
Might just get the n/s sill done as thats the worst
I seem to be talking myself out of doing it myself, As usual its all about money to do it !!!!
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:33 pm
by steve_earwig
If it's something you envision using for all sorts of other repairs, projects etc. then it'll soon pay for itself, otherwise if this is it and then it'll sit in the back of your shed for the rest of time then it's not worth getting one. Certainly not if you can get the whole job done for less than the cost of a welder and parts.
I wouldn't advise laying in the road in winter learning how to weld even if you were 36
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:01 pm
by dirtydirtydiesel
johntl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:28 am
Yes it makes me think about which way to go ?
I would like to do it myself but ! !!!!
I don't have a garage to work in
2 its winter
3 I'm 63 nearly
4 I've found a bloke that will do both sills for £200 ?????
5 It would still cost me about £100 for both sills on e-bay wether I did it or not
Might just get the n/s sill done as thats the worst
I seem to be talking myself out of doing it myself, As usual its all about money to do it !!!!
johntl,
Two things, if you've found someone to do it for £200.00 is that total or just for the welding?
Unless your planning to restore it, How long do you wish it to last, you don't need to buy complete sills,
You can just do local repairs using zintec or plain thin sheet steel, less than a tenner at your local steel fabricators.
One final point, check the mot reg's to the letter, for the last few years holes in sills have not been a fail
Unless within 150mm of a suspension mounting point
The tester can't fail it if you ask him to look & give his opinion ,Only if he's testing it.
I'm not saying you want to leave it, but maybe until the better weather?
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:20 pm
by GingerMagic
Slightly* off topic....
I put my carcinogenic T4 through an MOT and it failed on a fair few things, the main point being rust..
I mustard mitt I was fearing the eye watering sum of money to weld the inner and outer sill on both sides ( full length on the driver's side, half length on the passenger side ) but I was recommended a bloke that comes to you and does the work. Turns out he's a bit old school and said 'Meh, call it £200' which I thought was a steal.
All sorted now, just saving up for the CV joints and brake imbalance...
I guess owning a 20 year old van should make me invest in a welder too ( I gave away Dad's old arc welder 15 years ago ) but if this bodg..er, I mean 'repair' lasts 3 or 4 years then I don't see the need.
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:11 am
by johntl
thanks guys,
due to finances going to just get it patched if they pull it on the mot !
I know it needs a wheel bearing o/s font and that won't be peanuts ,and fingers crossed they don't find anything else ,with an 18 yr old car its always a lottery !!!!
The big decision will be if the clutch goes, its done 175k ,and as you know your are looking at £500 + !!!!
Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:39 pm
by PhillipM
Gas mig.
Gasless is a pain in the arse as it starts much worse than gasless and you'll have to do more cleanup, TIG is a waste of time unless you cut it back to completely perfectly clean metal and get your repair seamless - and you have it indoors otherwise the wind is a nightmare.
Stick welder? Forget it on car bodywork. It can be done, yes, but it always ends up a hell of a mess to sort out.
Beware that slapping a patch over the top usually just means the rest of it will rust even faster as you've created a moisture trap. So if you're keeping the car, worth doing it right the first time.