Hello hello hello

PeterN · Post by **PeterN** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:36 pm

I would agree, but only if you use the extra power, I rarely drive at more than 60 mph or 2000 rpm so you will be using a smaller throttle opening on the larger engine which will give you a leaner mixture thus improving the engine efficiency, it will also be higher geared giving more savings.

I drove my 2.2 in exactly the same way as my 2.0. with a very light foot and the difference was about a third improvement in favour of the 2.0.

I was getting a better consumption from my 2.1 XUD XM than from the 2.2 C5 - and its smoother at low revs.

Peter

Post by **steve_earwig** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:22 pm

MJB was gettong some fairly awful consumption from his other half's C5, must be common.

I suspect a D9 406 HDi buyer's guide is needed at this point but I'll tell you what I know...

Engines:
2.0s were available in 110bhp Bosch and 90bhp Bosch or Siemens flavours, 90bhps don't have a dual-mass flywheel but performance is generally regarded as "glacial". A fair amount of owners end up remapping them, expect to pay more for the Siemens... Particulate filters seem to have been an option on the 110 but it doesn't look like many people have been mad enough to go for one, I've only ever heard of one so equipped.

2.2s have a lot more possibilities wrt remapping, they all have particulate filters but there's a wealth of knowledge out there for dealing with them, but it all depends on how you feel about invalidating the car's type approval and the possibility of sticking it all back further down the line if they tighten up on mots.

Common problems include but are not limited to...
Oil leaks - rocker covers on the 2.0, weepy turbochargers.
Rattles - timing belt end could be the crankshaft pulley disintegrating (can take out the cam belt if it lets go), noisy injectors (due to wear, annoying but not life-threatening, new injectors are hugely expensive and reconditioning them doesn't stop them rattling), gearbox end could be the DMF (expensive replacement, should be replaced with the clutch, Valeo make a solid conversion)

Transmissions -
No real problems with the manuals, not the smoothest gearchange in the world but better than most (if you want to know what a bad gearchange feels like go test drive a Toyota RAV4

)

Steering/suspension -
No real problems here, they have anti-roll bar drop links like most cars and, like most cars, they don't seem to last long. Listen for clonks as it goes over pot holes.

Brakes -
Generally excellent unless they've been neglected. Sticking slides are fairly common as PSA weren't too generous with the grease. Handbrakes are more-or-less appalling, it's just the way they are.

Electrics -
All D9s are multiplex, we tend to call the early ones (1999 to June 2001) "semi-mux" and later cars (July 2001 to 2004) "full-mux" as these have much more of it. You'll have probably read about cooling fan fires on the full-mux cars but they should all have been fixed under recall (they were actually redesigned 4 times across production). Just like any other car on the road you should check it all works. Problem areas include some fairly major connectors under the driver's side carpet that can create some rather disturbing issues if they get damp. Full-mux cars are afflicted with the com2000 steering column switch assembly and floppy indicator stalk syndrome - horrendously expensive to replace (especially for an exec with ESP) but parts to repair them are now available on the bay of E, as well as people who will repair them for you for a small-ish fee. Door switches tend to get wet if the door is left open in the rain and they don't appreciate it.

Bodywork -
Generally good and largely rust free. Problem areas are the front lip of the bonnet (so if you get a good one fill it full of waxoyl so it stays like that) and the easy to kick off sill seals - broken or missing clips can let water into the sills which, combined with blocked drains, can lead to driving about with sills full of water which results in the sills corroding inside-out. Worth keeping an eye on these, as well as unbocking the drains and maybe spraying waxoyl inside if you plan on keeping the car a few years.

Tyres -
90bhp cars may come with 195/65 R15, mainly they're 205/60 15 or some later cars come with 205/55 R16. Tyre choice seems much better for the 195/65s and the 205/55s. Original fitments were Michelins, which are a fair tyre but tend to age rather rapidly.

Any good?

PeterN · Post by **PeterN** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:11 pm

Interesting summary. My 2.2 never gave me any trouble while I had it and it was a nice smooth engine but I just couldn't live with that fuel consumption especially as I had the 406 as well, I ended up hardly using the C5.

Cant help with tyres, I always use the best cheap ones my local friendly tyre man can offer, at the moment I am using Nexen because they were the softest ones he had and ride quality is my prime concern, especially having run hydropnumatic Citroens for about 30 years, I don't go fast enough to worry about road holding.

Peter

Post by **Doggy** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:50 pm

2.2 Hdi's have complex vacuum systems. Like every other diesel, you have a vacuum pump to feed the brake servo, but in addition you have no less than 5 other vacuum actuated engine controls, (turbo vanes, egr valve, intercooler and intercooler bypass air dosers, plus the swirl flaps actuator). Vacuum is supplied to these systems via three separate 0.5 mm diameter restrictors, (to ensure auxilliary system leaks can't leave you with no brakes). There is also a vacuum reservoir to provide enough suction to meet multiple demands despite the flow restrictors. 4 of the 5 electrovalves that control these systems have vents to atmosphere, with individual air filters to potentially clog.

Swirl flap actuator failures are not unusual, but are fairly easy to fault find. Vacuum faults are a common issue, but are difficult to pinpoint - the restrictors can block, pipework can leak, particularly where oil contamination is present, electrovalves can fail in a progressive manner and can only really be eliminated by substitution, often it's hard to tell if you have made a difference.....

As a consequence, I believe a fair proportion on 2.2's are not running optimally and this may explain reports of disappointing fuel consumption, turbo lag and lack of power. Many owners, (particularly on the coupe forum), have removed the egr and air dosers, mainly to simplify the vacuum system.

I have driven almost nothing but these engines for the last 5.5 years / 130k miles, 4 years / 100k of that total in de-fapped/remapped guise. When they're on song, they're marvellous - smooth, powerful, tractable and considering the performance, pretty economical.

Most owners have something they're not completely happy about - my first 406 was pretty much spot-on, but seemed to have an off-day every now and then. This one had a lack of boost at low engine speed until I did away with the air dosers and egr recently. You have to be prepared to learn how it all works and persevere until you have ironed out any wrinkles.

This may sound off-putting, but there are few, if any diesels I would have in preference. Bear in mind there are one or two of these babies producing over 200 bhp in everyday roadgoing trim and those wizards at ecuedit now have one kicking out 300 bhp!

Devilsfuel · Post by **Devilsfuel** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:31 pm

Thanks so much guys that is a wealth of info and you lot seem a nice bunch, unlike so forums where extracting info is like getting a blood out of a stone but only if you know the stone

Will I get a kicking if I say I'm viewing a 307 on Saturday?

http://bit.ly/1l33ywb

Is the above over priced???

My partner thinks the 406 is dated and I live in a busy area and the smallest car alway gets a parking space...unless Bristol city are playing at home

Sounds like a tractorrrr and smokes like a bus....

dirtydirtydiesel · Post by **dirtydirtydiesel** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:02 pm

Devilsfuel wrote:Thanks so much guys that is a wealth of info and you lot seem a nice bunch, unlike so forums where extracting info is like getting a blood out of a stone but only if you know the stone

Will I get a kicking if I say I'm viewing a 307 on Saturday?

http://bit.ly/1l33ywb

Is the above over priced???

My partner thinks the 406 is dated and I live in a busy area and the smallest car alway gets a parking space...unless Bristol city are playing at home

Sounds like a tractorrrr and smokes like a bus....

Nah, but for some reason the 307's seem to be a bit more trouble / fickle than the 406 & don't get as good fuel ecconomy

Oh & welcome on in

, yes a freindly lot on the whole

Devilsfuel · Post by **Devilsfuel** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:40 pm

Someone's going to shoot me....

i hope this is still available Sunday

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321386470031

Sounds like a tractorrrr and smokes like a bus....

Post by **Doggy** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:29 pm

Devilsfuel wrote:Someone's going to shoot me....

No-one would do that!
There isn't a single forum member who resort to gunning you down.

We'll form a firing squad.

rwb · Post by **rwb** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:53 am

Well I'd shoot myself before getting anything with that Ford 1.6 engine

I do hear the earlier 307s can be troublesome. There's a lot of posts about them on PeugeotForums, so either they really are a lot of trouble or they're very popular with people who post on internet forums.

I'll agree that the 406, saloon especially (although it's still a lovely shape), does look a bit dated on the outside, but inside they're really very nice places to sit, and even on a new small car you won't get many more toys.

Good luck with whatever you get...

jonsowman · Post by **jonsowman** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:57 am

rwb wrote:I do hear the earlier 307s can be troublesome. There's a lot of posts about them on PeugeotForums, so either they really are a lot of trouble or they're very popular with people who post on internet forums.

The facelift ones ('54 onwards IIRC) certainly fixed a lot of the issues in the earlier ones. However, some seem to be lemons and some seem to be great, and of course on the forums we only usually hear of the lemons! Our 1.6 petrol has done 90k absolutely trouble free and a friend of mine has a facelift 1.6 petrol too and that's also been no problems.

Make of that what you will

But good luck in your search!

Devilsfuel · Post by **Devilsfuel** » Fri May 09, 2014 11:40 pm

I have my new steed, not what I started looking at but...it's a lot of car for your money

Sounds like a tractorrrr and smokes like a bus....

dirtydirtydiesel · Post by **dirtydirtydiesel** » Sat May 10, 2014 12:36 am

It's looking like we need to start a 407 section

Post by **Doggy** » Sat May 10, 2014 1:24 am

What flavour '7's that, then?

(Looks tidy).

rwb · Post by **rwb** » Sat May 10, 2014 10:25 am

Can't argue with that

Which engine and trim level?
I thought they had body colour rub strips by 58-plate?
Unusual alloys too. What size tyres do they take?

Devilsfuel · Post by **Devilsfuel** » Sat May 10, 2014 3:12 pm

Cheer guys

It's a 407 136bhp hdi, the trim level is whatever you want it to be lol..it should be a se but has all the bits from the top spec minus leather and parking sensors...sensors are on my to do list as you can see naff all from the Capri bonnet and up sloping boot

The build quality on these are fantastic, the doors weight a ton each and no rattle or squeak..which is surprising but means it's not been hit, found that out from all the tinterweb browsing I did

Rwb it's the last 07 plate so just missed it

I love the car but hate that it's silver like my last car but at least it doesn't show many marks

Is there a 407 section as I need advice

Sounds like a tractorrrr and smokes like a bus....

406oc.co.uk