406oc.co.uk

Hi again Guys and girls!

Well the 406 estate has been doing well since the MOT (the brakes passed with flying colours - so I'm chuffed to bits!)
However, a new problem is rearing it's head - the clutch...

I've had the car for about 8 months, it's done around 180k miles, 6-8k of which whilst I've had it.

Last night I noticed that the clutch pedal feels like it's grating as you press/release the pedal, like how I would imagine that it would feel if it were a rusty cable in a sleeve. The clutch itself is hydraulic.

I looked this morning and noticed that the lever that goes into the bell housing, from the slave cylinder squeaks a little bit at the position when the pedal is pressed closest to the floor. The squeakiness is apparent when pressing and releasing. I'm assuming that this is something related to the grating sensation?

Also, I noticed that if you press the clutch pedal down to the floor, the engine note changes (not the revs, just the sound), regardless of whether or not the car is in gear. This is a new behaviour.

Something else about the clutch that I did notice when I first acquired the car, was that sometimes when pulling away, in the initial stages of bringing the clutch up in say, first gear, it would feel a little bit "bumpy" through the pedal - not the travel of the pedal, but as if the engagement of the clutch itself was slightly "bumpy" - but this was occasional and I forgot about it.

So I guess there are 3 questions, what might be causing:

1) the gratey/grating pedal sensation
2) the change in engine tone
3) the sometimes bumpy pull away

thank you for time.

If the grating issue is only apparent with the engine running then I would suspect a worn out clutch release bearing.

HI,

If the grating issue is only apparent with the engine running then I would suspect a worn out clutch release bearing.

I guess changing the release bearing means changing the clutch anyhow?

I now have further information - applying pressure to the clutch results in a "rubbing" or what I would call a "circular scraping" sound, I.E. there is some kind of rubbing that sounds like it is oscillating back and forth.

Releasing the pedal means that the sound stops. Does this assist with diagnosis?

I guess that my questions can be extended to;
* Is it likely that I need to replace the clutch (I.E. pressure plate, bearing and friction plate)
* Is it likely that there is an issue with the flywheel also, if so;
** Is it dual mass or single mass?
* Are there any other consumables that I'm going to need to replace the clutch etc. (E.g. circlips for driveshafts)
* Where might I buy a manual?

Sorry about the barrage of questions, but I really shall be doing the work myself so need to get it right - unfortunately I'm in the middle of dropping the K-series engine, gear-box and subframe from my other car (MG MGF) and stressing about the hydragas suspension - as I blew a hole in the side of the block - so this set back with the Peugeot has arrived at the wrong time (Typical!)

Thank you all in advance.

Definitely sounds like the bearing now Never rains when it pours huh?

bytecode wrote:* Is it likely that I need to replace the clutch (I.E. pressure plate, bearing and friction plate) You'd probably be nuts not to.
* Is it likely that there is an issue with the flywheel also - why? If the pressure plate's not worn out then it's unlikely to damage the flywheel., if so;
** Is it dual mass or single mass? It's a 90 so single
* Are there any other consumables that I'm going to need to replace the clutch etc. (E.g. circlips for driveshafts) Don't know that one, poss circlips. Oil would be good.
* Where might I buy a manual? Ebay, Amazon, there's a PDF Haynes knocking about somewhere but you'll have to do a search 'cos I can't remember where it was.

steve_earwig wrote:Definitely sounds like the bearing now Never rains when it pours huh?

bytecode wrote:* Is it likely that I need to replace the clutch (I.E. pressure plate, bearing and friction plate) You'd probably be nuts not to.
* Is it likely that there is an issue with the flywheel also - why? If the pressure plate's not worn out then it's unlikely to damage the flywheel., if so;
** Is it dual mass or single mass? It's a 90 so single
* Are there any other consumables that I'm going to need to replace the clutch etc. (E.g. circlips for driveshafts) Don't know that one, poss circlips. Oil would be good.
* Where might I buy a manual? Ebay, Amazon, there's a PDF Haynes knocking about somewhere but you'll have to do a search 'cos I can't remember where it was.

Thank you both for taking the time to respond.
As ever, Steve, Jasper5, the whole community in fact - you're all awesome!
I'll start looking for the parts, manual and work out how I'm gonna so it (as my stands etc.. are under the other car atm)
I think that I'm going to go to bed - imagine how a clutch works (I've read my various "not for my car(s)" manuals several times to get the concept into my head) and how it relates to the sounds that I've described.

My only previous experiences of clutches have been the usual short-term "glazed clutch" symptom or the more final worn slipping/gear change issue symptoms.
Thank you.

wow - I'm surprised at the speed of failure - my GF had an essential appointment a few miles up the road that I thought the clutch would "stretch" to - but she's just rung to say that although she got there - she's not going to make it back given the noise and the smell coming from the clutch.

Thankfully, we're with a breakdown service, so they'll bring her back with the car and I can start ordering bits on ebay.
I've just got to work out how to tell my boss that I wont be in the office for a few days...

I'm now eagerly awaing my Haynes 3982 and clutch kit from ebay, amazon etc...

Just looking for tips re: clutch changing elsewhere on the site - darn - I forgot about having to get those hub nuts...
I suppose it's probably worth having a look at the gaiters whilst I'm at it too.

Ah - I think that I can hear the breakdown truck outside...

"Mr. RAC" confirms the diagnosis offered by Jasper5 & Steve_earwig; he reckons it's the clutch release bearing.
I guess it's trying to drill it's way into the pressure plate.
There's now a "lovely" squeal when pressing the clutch pedal, although the car is still drivable as far as say, maneuvering on the driveway is concerned.

They have quite a nifty unbraked tow-system hidden away inside those break down vans of theirs.

Do you mean this sort of thing? http://www.cjautos.site90.net/wheelskates.html

steve_earwig wrote:Do you mean this sort of thing? http://www.cjautos.site90.net/wheelskates.html

No, I mean like this:



The "trailer" like unit has some kind of self-contained, passive hydraulic steering system, and is partially winched up inside the doors of the van, then the two "arms" of the wheels are wound in, and then it's winched in the rest of the way - really clever and compact.
The "spread" of the arms is adjustable also.

The entire system fits inside of the rear-portion of the van that the white and orange chevrons mark-out - so it really is compact - and it's all "part" of the van.
The passive hydraulic steering was cool - there are hydraulic lines between the wheels, he demonstrated "steering" one wheel, by turning it by hand, as in, toe-ing it in, and the other one followed also (toe-ing out).

It's unbraked & unlit, so the van has to take the load braking-wise, so there are weight and speed limitations.

I was impressed.

Thats one of there older trailers by the looks of it,
they have ones now whats light weight, everything come apart on it and clips togheter including wheels,
theyve got some good Equiptment onboard them vans incl diagnostic stuff,

lozz wrote:Thats one of there older trailers by the looks of it,
they have ones now whats light weight, everything come apart on it and clips togheter including wheels,
theyve got some good Equiptment onboard them vans incl diagnostic stuff,

Yeah, this guy said that he had the first one (presumably he means at his control centre) - he said that it's from 2002 (or did he say 2003?), so it's not as sexy as the latest ones. Pretty neat though.

I get this grating sensation through the clutch pedal too, and it is a bit squeaky. A mechanic did mention the clutch may be on the way out a few months ago (only got the car in March) so maybe he meant the release bearing?

I never noticed any slipping but I do occasionally find it hard to engage the clutch smoothly when pulling off or changing between low gears - I just assumed that was down to lack of experience driving these diesel yokes though.

How much would a clutch replacement typically cost on these including labour?

I paid £95 plus vat so £114 from the stealer for the clutch kit, and cost me £180 to get it fitted
Plus a couple of litres of oil
Quoted me £150, but had problems with the bolts for the subframe so took them longer

The symptoms quoted in initial post sounded like when my clutch played up, which I summised to be the thrust bearing
After being replaced I span the thrust bearing, and was ruff as a nun's chuff

plod wrote:I paid £95 plus vat so £114 from the stealer for the clutch kit, and cost me £180 to get it fitted
Plus a couple of litres of oil
Quoted me £150, but had problems with the bolts for the subframe so took them longer

That's a good price, my brother paid £900 for a clutch replacement on his 2.0L HDi Picasso (I assume that it's DMF) but it seemed pricey to me.