Replacing 5 gear Transmission with 6 gear Transmission

[OdinEidolon]

I only have the Peugeot diagrams and repair instructions for the ML5T. This stuff:

Gearbox - Data - Capacities.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - 5th Gear Cover - Modification.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - 5th Gear Stop Ring - Modification.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - 5th Speed Fork - Identification.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - 5th Speed Gear - Refitting.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - 5th Speed Gear - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Bearing Support Plate - Modification.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Breather Assemblies - Identification.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Clutch Housing Assembly - Dismantle.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Clutch Pedal Travel - Check.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Clutch - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Clutch - Tightening Torques.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Data - Identification.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Differential Box - Dismantle.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Differential Box - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Differential Housing Assembly - Reassemble.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Differential - Reassemble.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Fork Guide Ball Races - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Gearbox Casing - Refitting.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Gearbox Casing - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Gearbox Control & Input & Output Shafts Plate - Refitting.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Gearbox Control & Input & Output Shafts Plate - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Gearbox Control Plate - Dismantle.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Gearbox Control Plate - Reassemble.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Gearlever & Cables - Identification.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Gearlever & Cables - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Hydraulic Clutch Control.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Hydraulic Clutch Control - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Input Shaft Bearings - Check.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Input Shaft - Dismantle.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Output Shaft - Dismantle.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Removal.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Reverse Sliding Gear Shaft - Modification.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Special Tools.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Synchroniser - Dismantle.pdf
Gearbox - Manual (ML5T) - Synchronisers - Identification.pdf

do you need anything? The ML5T should be pretty similar to the ML5C

[srdan]

i have got it i need some time to compare, will post the results keep those files for me

br, Srdan

[OdinEidolon]

i have got it i need some time to compare, will post the results keep those files for me

br, Srdan

[6speedmanual]

Great thread guys! Keep it going!

I am currently comtemplating putting a ML5 from a 2.2 into my 2.0 - IF I can establish if it has higher (longer) gear ratios.

6 speed would also be a good possibility if there was a known technical path.

By the way, I do not have any worries about cruise control reading the ratio of road/engine speed but the engine ECU may still get upset.

A 6 speed I saw on ebay did not have a speedo drive output. I guess that the 407 calculates road speed by picking up ABS wheel speed, therefore gearbox output is redundant. Thsi presents another complication because the 6 speed would have to be rebuilt with teh 5 speed final drive and output housing.

Watching with great interest.

Peter

[Doggy]

Which 2.0 have you got?

Ooops just saw your other post....

[6speedmanual]

2.0 HDI 110

[srdan]

hello there.

6speedmanual - Peter you are right about 407 . Today I tried with 407 6 speed gearbox. It is quite different. The clutch part is totally different and yes it calculate speed with abs .
Only possibility is the 6 speed gearbox from C5 2.2 HDI year model 2002 with 4hx engine type and :-) i think i can make it, i am 90% positive about that. Now i am looking for it, will let you know about my progress. I do not worry about the ecu, it can be reprogrammed...

[OdinEidolon]

hello there.

6speedmanual - Peter you are right about 407 . Today I tried with 407 6 speed gearbox. It is quite different. The clutch part is totally different and yes it calculate speed with abs .
Only possibility is the 6 speed gearbox from C5 2.2 HDI year model 2002 with 4hx engine type and :-) i think i can make it, i am 90% positive about that. Now i am looking for it, will let you know about my progress. I do not worry about the ecu, it can be reprogrammed...

Well done, good luck!

[srdan]

no more guessing, i am going to check it out in TECHDOC DATA...thx to DrB

[srdan]

Hello there,
got some news... CITROEN C5 2.2 HDI 2001-2003 6 speed gearbox will be suitable.
I have to check the axis --> my bad english --> "Drive shaft" and that's all

[steve_earwig]

You, sir, are a hero

Just a few questions: How are you discovering these things? Who is DrB? What is an axis?

I will probably never be able to make any use of your discoveries but I can still appreciate the effort that your are making - keep up the fantastic work!

[srdan]

hello thx, you are kidding...with me a little.
sorry for my English

here are answers:

How are you discovering these things?

I am discovering those things like this:
1. i check which cars have 2.2 HDI 4HX engine - with AUTO DATA SOFTWARE
2. i check which of these cars have 6 speed gearbox
3. i check which has ML6CL gearbox (because mine is ML5CL)
4. i check gear ratio
5. i ask my friend DrB if it will fit - that's nickname at Ecuconnections forum, he is a real mechanical and ECU guru
...

Who is DrB?

...line 5 at question 1

What is an axis?

my bad...it is Drive shaft

hope I did not make a lot of mess...


br, Srdan

[OdinEidolon]

Srdan, well done!
A quick question not regarding the transmission change: what modifications have you done to your ecu map, apart from EGR exclusion and idle speed adjustement? Did you start from the 180 map? What year is your 406?

I guess you and HardGain on the Ita forum are the same person!

[srdan]

hi, thx OdinEidolon,

the 180 was just a pure beginning, to see how to detect maps...the 180 file has around 20 maps located and changed...
with great DrB help I have located 62 maps (air maps, fuel maps, turbo maps, limiters, EGR maps, FAP maps , and so on...)

to create good tune, a lot of maps has to be changed, and not just by the feeling, everything has to be very carefully calculated - by the book
(injection duration, start of ignition, rail pressure, IQ limiters, torque, turbo maps, turbo limiters, drivers wish, rail pressure limiters, MAF, n75 maps, boost limiters, single value limiters and so on.and so on...). In ecu everything can be done...but it takes a lot of time and brainstorming (i needed a lot), without help I would gave up.

after those changes, the second part begin to be funny. Driving and analysing parameters with PP2000, to see if over boost is happening (the turbo with waste gate is very difficult to set up), to check max IQ, to check rail pressure, to check if DTC is present, to check, injection corrections, to check, temperatures...and so on...then fine tuning begins...based on that engine and other engine part characteristics I am at 90% of fine tune now...

My 406 is 2002 year...if you need some help, just let me know.

Nope I am not HardGain

Sorry If I used some strange grammatical, but It can be understandable i hope.

br, Srdan

[OdinEidolon]

hi, thx OdinEidolon,

the 180 was just a pure beginning, to see how to detect maps...the 180 file has around 20 maps located and changed...
with great DrB help I have located 62 maps (air maps, fuel maps, turbo maps, limiters, EGR maps, FAP maps , and so on...)

to create good tune, a lot of maps has to be changed, and not just by the feeling, everything has to be very carefully calculated - by the book
(injection duration, start of ignition, rail pressure, IQ limiters, torque, turbo maps, turbo limiters, drivers wish, rail pressure limiters, MAF, n75 maps, boost limiters, single value limiters and so on.and so on...). In ecu everything can be done...but it takes a lot of time and brainstorming (i needed a lot), without help I would gave up.

after those changes, the second part begin to be funny. Driving and analysing parameters with PP2000, to see if over boost is happening (the turbo with waste gate is very difficult to set up), to check max IQ, to check rail pressure, to check if DTC is present, to check, injection corrections, to check, temperatures...and so on...then fine tuning begins...based on that engine and other engine part characteristics I am at 90% of fine tune now...

My 406 is 2002 year...if you need some help, just let me know.

Nope I am not HardGain

Sorry If I used some strange grammatical, but It can be understandable i hope.

br, Srdan

Brilliant! I hoped you could "lend" me your map but yours being a post-multiplex this could be impossible.
That's a big coincidence there: on the Italian forum there's a guy from Koper with a 2.2HDi coupé. And his name is pretty similar to yours: it's Jadran, so I had a bit of confusion and thought the names were the same.
I find nothing wrong with your English, it's perfectly understandable. That said my English is far from perfect too!
By the way I recently purchased PP2000 and Galletto (wanted to have both) so I hope I'll get them in 2-3 weeks time.