Replacing 5 gear Transmission with 6 gear Transmission

[Doggy]

I can feel the engine cry at those revs

It's only crying because of inappropriate ecu software. Remap it Adriano!

[OdinEidolon]

I can feel the engine cry at those revs

It's only crying because of inappropriate ecu software. Remap it Adriano!

LOL
yes yes I'm gonna do that... sooner or later!
I need to replace front pads, disks and brake fluid and probably the crank pulley soon, I'll ask the mechanic to remove the FAP altogether... I'd do that, but I have no way to get the car up more than 20cm.
Also my injectors are still playing up sometimes... on idle with the car cold I have the bad vibration you did, and the engine idles too high (900-1000rpms, floating). After some cleaning with professional fluids (much more powerful than redex and similar stuff) the vibration on the move disappeared, but I still feel there's something wrong...

[srdan]

remap it

[srdan]

hello there,
huh there has to be done some homework before success :S

First off all i have to find all Citroen and Peugeot, Lancia car models that had 2.2 HDI 4HX engines.

After that I have to start looking which car had the possibility of 6gear transmission,
after that i am not really sure what to do because:

there is big doubt about if it will fit. I think i need a little bit help on that

My good friend told me that there will be a lottery, also i have to do my homework about gear ratios, because
it could happen that 6th gear will be almost the same as my 5th.

Maybe if i find my tranny part number and find all of spec, than find all 6gr and compare it before nasty job is done...

[Doggy]

Srdan,

I don't have time to search for it now, but there was a post about a year or so ago, comparing ratios between 406 ML5 boxes and the ML6 from a 407. (Largely thanks to steve_earwigg). The conclusion was that the ML6 was a development of the ML5 and probably physically interchangable. The first 5 ratios were also virtually the same as ours, just a higher 6th, in other words ideal.

[srdan]

that is great news hope to find one suitable. I thing this will be interesting project

I have also found out that CITROEN C5 will be suitable i hope, P607 has different type of connecting gear box to chassis .
Only those two cars that I know have 4HX engine type like 406 and quite compatible chassis and 6gr tranny.

Tomorrow I am going to check the part number on one c5 and to look closely how it is connected to chassis.

[grasmere59]

How do you sort out the gearshift linkage to give 6 speed?

[srdan]

no need i hope there are cables, reverse is not where 6th gear should be, there is the same number of cables ML5 or ML6...detailed view is going to be tomorrow...

[srdan]

Doggy I think you are right. P407 should have same connections. For ML5 i found this:


engine code XFX XFX 3FZ RHZ 4HX
gearbox reference 20LM13 20LM14 20LM10 20LM04 20LM02
1st 13 X 40 13 X 40 12 X 39 12 X 41 12 X 41
2nd speed 23 X 41 23 X 41 23 X 41 23 X 41 23 X 41
3rd speed 31 X 37 31 X 37 31 X 37 33 X 37 33 X 37
fourth gear 41 X 37 41 X 37 41 X 37 44 X 35 44 X 35
5th gear 45 X 33 45 X 33 45 X 33 51 X 31 51 X 31
reverse 13 X 23 13 X 23 12 X 23 12 X 23 12 X 23
final drive ratio(s) 16 X 65 16 X 69 16 X 69 16 X 65 17 X 67
speedometer drive gear 25 X 20 25 X 20 25 X 20 25 X 20 25 X 20

[srdan]

ok, now it is enough for today, this is comparison ML5 vs. ML6:


GR ML6 ML5
1 12 x 41 12 X 41
2 23 x 41 23 X 41
3 33 x 37 33 X 37
4 44 x 35 44 X 35
5 51 x 33 51 X 31
6 58 x 31 N/A
R 12 x 23 12 X 23
MAIN 17 x 67 17 X 67

[steve_earwig]

It has gone very quiet over there, did you have luck or is it job you wish you didn't start?

[OdinEidolon]

It has gone very quiet over there, did you have luck or is it job you wish you didn't start?

c'mon steve last post is of 3 days ago... I'd expect such a work to necessitate weeks if not months of planning...

[srdan]

hello I am working on it, have a lot of problems.
I am not really sure which gearbox will fit, maybe I will have to combine 2 into one

For now only:
C5 2.2 HDI 4hx engine with 6 gears is candidate
and P607 / P807 2.2 HDI 4hx as well.

ML6C/L 20MB01 could be the right one.
Today I am going to check the repair manuals to confirm it.

I got one gearbox today and it is not ok.

will let you know in next days.

[steve_earwig]

I was wondering if the 6 speed would have gear to drive speed sensor or you might have to use final drive from 5 speed (if it fits). Then there is the mounting and will there be enough room However I can see no reason the gearbox wouldn't fit to the engine: all the part numbers are the same.

Srečno!

[srdan]

steve_earwig thx
maybe I complicate too much, but after full time job, I am relaxing with cars lately

there should be enough room i guess but there are several things that make me problems:

1. about cruising in 6th gear - we have tested this and it should be fine i hope (several posts before)
2. am not really sure about speed sensor - what will happen...if it is not working correct even air bag error appears - had that experience yesterday when I changed map of EGR - tried to turn it off by modifying the EGR map in hexdump, but I was stupid because car went into the limp mode (a lot of things depends on egr map) and as I discovered something was in short circuit and also speed sensor wasn't working normally, i got even airbag error because of fault on speed sensor,

today i know that there is switch 000/001 in another map that turns of the EGR and now i know how to disable it

3. there is problem for axis - my good friend had horrible experience, he changed the gearbox - all numbers where the same but from another car, there was around 2mm difference in some "angle" of axis and that could not be noticed by eye, everything fit great...after 1000km, the oil started to leek from it and after that it broke.

I will check repair manuals for
ML5C 20LM02 vs. ML6C /L 20MB01

everything has to be 100% same in connecting gearbox to chassis, and fitting the axis (angle)...am I right?

maybe there i can see if it will fit.

The problem is that for every gearbox i try and compare i have to tell the guy who is selling it that if it wont fit I will bring it back (it costs about 350€), and nobody is happy about this kind of business I hope the repair manual will tell me more, that I will be certain which type of gearbox will be the right one, because it is really stressful to call around buy it compare and than bring it back i do not like that...

Can anyone send me manuals for those two gearboxes maybe, it would help a lot