1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

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Welly
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Welly » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:20 pm

I think the clutch is ok though (63K miles) when this hesitation/stutter happens you can also here the exhaust note change (like a miss-fire) so I'm suspecting it's an electronic fault between the accelerator input and the clutch action.

It's going back in next Thursday for me to 'demonstrate' the fault to the techy bloke there....
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2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer
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Doggy
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Doggy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:41 pm

Latest odds:

It'll work perfectly on the day 3/1
"They all do that, Sir" 5/2
They'll fix it properly 100/1

I truly hope you get it sorted painlessly, best of luck.
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12)
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Welly
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Welly » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:53 pm

Can I have a tenner on "they all do that sir"...

I think that is very likely, coupled with "the clutch is now half worn so what do you expect"...

Google is rife with people complaining about citroen 'EGS' gearboxes; juddering and whatnot.
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

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Welly
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Welly » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:21 pm

Dropped it off this morning (I've got a 2018 loan car C3 in a pretty shade of powder blue :oops: ) I got to meet the senior tech mechanic and talked about the gearbox/clutch troubles...

"err, sorry but these electronic gearboxes aren't very good, some of them we calibrate and never see them again but others just won't settle down at all"

Place yer bets......
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

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Bailes1992
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Bailes1992 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:05 pm

I'll hedge my bets on a lot of this being down to a worn clutch and fly.

All 3 Focuses I had ended up with 'clutch whoop' by the time they hit 60k. Well, my 14 plate one was given to me on 88k and the clutch was royally shot when I got it. :lol:

My first Focus had a ridiculously easy life too, it drove back and fore Bournemouth via the A34 twice a week at 70mph using cruise control for the first 2 years/50k of it's life. When I part-ex'd it I was starting to get a slight scraping on uptake of drive.

My last company Focus started 'whooping' at 45k but I did have a habit of driving it quite hard.
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Welly
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Welly » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:32 am

Well, that went well*

Does anyone else feel like a little bit more support and understanding would go a long way when dealing with others in a customer/business relationship? :frown:

Bear in mind that this second visit to the main dealers was 'gratis' due to the previous paid service being unsuccessful so I'm already on a back foot for having the cheek to 'complain' or question their ability....

They say they've re-uploaded the gearbox software (testament to this was the ashtray left on the passenger seat because the OBD port is under it), don't worry chaps I'll refit the ashtray myself, it's not like it's fiddly or anything..

Anyhoo the next step is asking me to authorise a labour-only cost of £475.00 to remove the gearbox, nothing else, and presumably to have a quick gander at the clutch and THEN advice on the cost of repairs/replacement :lol:

If that wasn't bad enough they genuinely suggested I trade the car in for a new one as "they have some great* 0% finance deals" :roll:

Needless to say I told them to jam it and took the car home, which was actually behaving a tad better than before but still hesitating a little.

So there you have it, one borked Citroen C4 with an electronic manual gearbox at 63,000 miles. I'm changing the oil this weekend because its due but also we have about 1000 miles of trips to do over xmas and it'd feel nicer to me with new oil in there.
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

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Doggy
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Doggy » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:30 pm

Get the PM to renegotiate with the garage?

Was the C4 available with an ordinary manual option? I guess it's an 'automated manual' like the ZF (fr)'Agile' box in my camper.
Strikes me that if so a manual conversion might be possible for less money than the 'investigation' the garage proposed.
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate (2012-19)
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by steve_earwig » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:47 pm

Oh ffs :( That there''s turning into a bit of a nightmare. What is the car actually worth? I mean, if it was working properly obv.
Welly wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:32 am
don't worry chaps I'll refit the ashtray myself, it's not like it's fiddly or anything..
Count your blessings, they could have jammed it in sideways breaking all the tabs off, necessitating the removal of the dashboard to replace...

I dunno, I think I'm liking the "replace with proper gearbox" idea as I think the chances of you having to replace the clutch, flywheel and probably the whole sodding gearbox are getting increasingly likely.
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2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
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Welly
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Welly » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:30 am

I dunno about converting it into a manual, can't be arsed with all that, I mean it doesn't even have a clutch pedal and as far as I know when manufacturing a car the fact that it's auto* or manual is crucial in it's early production stage (pedal box/linkages etc)so I'd imagine a conversion being a ball ache that's without even thinking about how upset the ecu will be without it's gearbox buddy....and the fact it has incline and cornering detection...and hill start assist I just think it would be complex.

To be fair though yesterday we had 4 in the car to Birmingham and it behaved very well save a couple of tiny hesitations it was essentially 'normal'.

My feeling is to leave it alone now.....
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by trufflehunt » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:58 pm

Welly wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:30 am

My feeling is to leave it alone now.....
Would tend to agree.

Here's what parkers.co.uk says about the gearbox on C4....

"....Summer 2006 saw the introduction of an automatic gearbox called EGS (or Electronic Gearbox System).

This works like a standard automatic but also gives the driver the option of making manual changes. It's far from a resounding success though - in automatic mode the changes are slow and the car pitches and dives under hard acceleration. Manual mode allows you to use the steering-column mounted paddles but it’s little better. Unfortunately the vague and imprecise manual gearbox is poor too......"



On the basis of what you're experiencing now, that almost sounds like it's about as good as it gets.
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Welly » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:37 am

The gearbox idea is really bad for long-term owners but in true French style it does keep working rather than flagging errors for the nice* people down at the dealers..

The technology behind the idea is actually very good, for example the ECU knows if you're on a steep gradient and extends the acceleration in first gear and even shifts to second quicker to maintain progress I think that's good, it also delays up-shifts if you back off the throttle (unlike a slushmatic) there's a 'sport' mode which is about 10% more interesting with higher revs and very quick changes.

It's ok but is seems obvious now that as the clutch wears you're going to be left with a compromise in performance and this is where it gets expensive, I've found documents online about the 'calibration' which is what I've just had done twice and it has to be done rigidly to the guide, I tried to explain this to the tech bloke :roll:

We were gifted this car so it was always going to be a journey into the unknown but I would implore anyone to avoid an EGS equipped car in the future.
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

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Doggy
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Doggy » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:43 am

You're probably right about the practicalities of a conversion, reckon you would as a minimum need a map from a manual car's ecu.....

You're best bet is probably to work out the least worst long term strategy for finding it a loving forever home without shelling out mega bucks on a replacement.

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Luck
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Welly
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Welly » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:08 pm

She wants "one of them big cars" :?

She drives a Ford C-Max and a Renner Captur (capture?) in her day job and has rather taken to the elevated sense of self impor......sorry driving position and easy of embarkment/disembarkment.

Current favourite is a Kia Sportage.

Good luck indeed.
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by steve_earwig » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:45 pm

I was thinking 475 quid would pick you up a gearbox plus ecu/bsi/transploder there but I guess it wouldn't pay for your time. I just worry it's a damn nightmare that will only get worse.
Welly wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:37 am
(unlike a slushmatic)
I think things have moved on with them a great deal since the last time you drove one, no longer do they just run on fluid pressure and one single switch on the throttle cable. The yoyo does all that and more. It also gets confused if I let go of the throttle and coast going up a hill - "he's coasting to a stop, out of gear I go. Oh, now he wants to accelerate again, I do wish he'd make up his mind. Here we go, erm, neutral. No, first BANG!!" It's only done it twice...

Haiundie/Kia seem to be John Cadogan's car of choice down in Arsetralier, well built and reliable with great dealer back up. i wonder what they're like in the uk...
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

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Welly
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Re: 1.6HDi coming our way - Please Help!

Post by Welly » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:42 pm

Just done a quick Honest John on the Kia Sportage:

Summary:

Clutches (not covered by warranty)
DMF's (not covered by warranty)
Rising oil levels (due to DPF regens)

Oh dear...
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

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