Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

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AndreiNCS
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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by AndreiNCS » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:18 am

frog wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:38 pm
For SEDRE, it is best if you give the DAM number. It is on a sticker attached close to the hinge on the drivers door - see pictures 11 & 12 on http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/141248-post3.html
Hi

DAM number is 9380 :)

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by frog » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:12 am

Ok for that DAM number i retrieved the following diagram:

Electronic Injection 9380.pdf
(371.66 KiB) Downloaded 31 times

The numbers of the components can be found in http://www.autoelectric.ru/auto/peugeot ... agrams.htm (in English). For example: 1160 is "glow plugs."

It is quite a lot of information, but after a while you will start to recognize things :D .

Note that some shown components are optional, e.g. 8098 "additional heating" --> i think it is not on all models.
Current "fleet":
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2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by AndreiNCS » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:24 pm

frog wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:12 am
Ok for that DAM number i retrieved the following diagram:


Electronic Injection 9380.pdf


The numbers of the components can be found in http://www.autoelectric.ru/auto/peugeot ... agrams.htm (in English). For example: 1160 is "glow plugs."

It is quite a lot of information, but after a while you will start to recognize things :D .

Note that some shown components are optional, e.g. 8098 "additional heating" --> i think it is not on all models.

Thank you for your effort! I think it's a little to complicated for me this kind of info, and beside this, electrical circuit was checked in 2 places. Monday I will go again with the car at service for even more investigations...I will come back with updates.... meanwhile, any sugestion is welcome!

Once again, thak you for your sugetions and your effort!

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by GingerMagic » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:36 pm

Okay.

My thinking is this, although I'm no mechanic.
The ECU needs to read the information from the crank and cam sensor before injecting fuel I believe, and white smoke on starting could be unburned fuel.
It seems the fuel system is fine, the sensors are fine, the injectors are fine - so it must be the glow plugs or the relay....???

I know you have tested them but do they work in the morning? Is there a way to test them heating up when you turn the ignition on?

Sorry, but that's as good as my mechanical knowledge goes.
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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by steve_earwig » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:48 am

I think the guy has been all through the glowplug system already. Although it should be noted that the glowplug light on the dash doesn't represent what the glowplugs are actually doing.
frog wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:12 am
Ok for that DAM number i retrieved the following diagram:

Electronic Injection 9380.pdf
That's a semi-mux (early 406 facelift) diagram, looks like it's Bosch with the lift pump. The later diagrams on sedre are block diagrams - click on a component to see its individual wiring. Obviously I can't post all of them and expect it to make sense...

I think this problem is looking like something is not telling the ecu the truth and, without some decent diagnoses, finding it is just going to be changing components until the fault clears (standard practice for most franchises these days)
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by GingerMagic » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:48 am

I was wondering if the glow plugs were working if the CTS was plugged in, or if they don't work if it is plugged in....
False data etc...
1999 T4 family wagon
2002 Citroen Xsara Picasso Hdi90
2003 Hdi110 Executive estate
1998 406 V6 Coupe - Midlife crisis..!
PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Bournemouth area.

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by Doggy » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:23 pm

I would disconnect the output wire (1183) from the glow plug relay & connect it direct to the battery +ve
Measure the current if you can, (something like 30 - 40 A.), if you can't at least confirm there's a nice fat spark
If not, re-check all the connections to the glow plugs and verify the engine earth is OK

Once you're certain they're working keep the power on them for 20 seconds, start engine, keep them on for another half minute......
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AndreiNCS
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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by AndreiNCS » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:29 am

Doggy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:23 pm
I would disconnect the output wire (1183) from the glow plug relay & connect it direct to the battery +ve
Measure the current if you can, (something like 30 - 40 A.), if you can't at least confirm there's a nice fat spark
If not, re-check all the connections to the glow plugs and verify the engine earth is OK

Once you're certain they're working keep the power on them for 20 seconds, start engine, keep them on for another half minute......
Hi everyone,

Just an short update, if anyone is interested. The electric circuit was checked by 3 different persons, and it seems that is all good. Last week a different ECU was checked ( with all including reprograming and syncronizing) and still the same struggle on starting, so this week, cylinder head will be removed the see if the head gasket it's broken or any other parts are broken inside the engine... it's my last try....

Meanwhile, if any on you have any sugestions, please write them :cheesy:
Regards

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by PeterN » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:30 am

I apologise if this has already been mentioned but I couldn't see it. On the back of the HP pump is a pressure regulator which also contains a very fine strainer which can become clogged and gives rise to all sorts of problems including poor starting, I had no end of trouble with the one on my C5, same engine. If you are getting white smoke from the exhaust when trying to start, ignore this.

Peter

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by AndreiNCS » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:10 pm

PeterN wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:30 am
I apologise if this has already been mentioned but I couldn't see it. On the back of the HP pump is a pressure regulator which also contains a very fine strainer which can become clogged and gives rise to all sorts of problems including poor starting, I had no end of trouble with the one on my C5, same engine. If you are getting white smoke from the exhaust when trying to start, ignore this.

Peter
Hi, Peter

Thanks for your suggestion, but a different HP pump was placed on the car ( includig a different pressure regulator) and the same poor starting, including a lot of white/slightly grey smoke, all these until the engine temperature starts rising. After this, it runs perfectly, and it blows only a little trace of smoke wich I guess it's normally, giving the fact that it's a diesel from 2002 and it has hole in the muffler :shock:

Once again, Thanks for you suggestion! :)

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by AndreiNCS » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:16 pm

Hi guys


Recently I noticed that air bubbles are going into the HP pump... I don't know from where they come, but is there a chance that this to be the issue? :shock:

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by Doggy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:32 pm

Could well be the problem. Did we determine if your car has a Bosch or Siemens fuel system?
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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by AndreiNCS » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:53 pm

Doggy wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:32 pm
Could well be the problem. Did we determine if your car has a Bosch or Siemens fuel system?
It has a Siemens fuel system. I've changed HP pump including it's pressure regulator, 3 injectors, glow plugs, glow plugs rely, coolant temp sensor, ECU.... and none of these bring any improvements. Even now when on the day are 20+ and on the night 10+ celsius degrees, it still needs 3-4 engine spins to turn on...

Next week, a proper mechanic, not me :lol: , will connect an hose to directly from HP pump to a bottle with diesel, and also the flow back to the same bottle... I guess it's the cheapest way to check if it's a "fake air" in the engine, problem. I hope I explained it properly depite my bad english.

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by Doggy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:52 pm

That's a good idea.

You could well have a tiny leak at the fuel filter, (can be too small for fuel to leak out, but air still gets in).
It's also worth checking the strainer, (filter), in the fuel tank is not blocked, this can give similar problems.
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate

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Re: Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 90HP, cold start problem

Post by AndreiNCS » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:31 am

Doggy wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:52 pm
That's a good idea.

You could well have a tiny leak at the fuel filter, (can be too small for fuel to leak out, but air still gets in).
It's also worth checking the strainer, (filter), in the fuel tank is not blocked, this can give similar problems.
Hi, Doggy

Thanks for the informations. I will come back next week with news, after replacing the whole tank circuit with a bottle with diesel. :cheesy:

Regards

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