Fuel choice for your next car?

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Welly
The moderator formally known as Welton
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Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by Welly »

Seems to me the current choice is poor:

Common Rail Diesel - uncertainty over future Taxation, Emissions, some Cities, and more importantly the impact on future value?

Petrol - Not bad but the latest generation of small Pez turbo's have only really just hit the market - too expensive?

Petrol & Electric - i.e. Prius, a bit nerdy, dull and not all that economical ?

Full Electric - Battery Roulette?

Plug in Hybrid - Don't know what that means.

Hydrogen - now there's a thing!
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer with new tyre grippage
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

Doggy
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by Doggy »

I'm going to have to replace mine in the next 4-6 weeks. I expect to buy something for sub £3k to run for 4/5 years.
That puts hybrids & electrics out of my price range, so it's a straight choice between petrol & diesel. A year ago, I would have said 110% diesel now it's not so cut & dried. As far as I can tell diesel still wins by a comfortable margin on pure running costs for UK & Western Europe but it has got closer. There will also be a growing number of cities that prohibit older diesels, (Like my camper with 31k on the clock). :roll:
I will factor those restrictions into my car choice since I plan on towing it behind the camper.

I expected the dented reputation of diesels to have affected residual values, but there doesn't seem to be any sign of that happening.
Makes no sense.
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate (2012-19)
2009 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi VTR+ Estate

steve_earwig
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by steve_earwig »

That'll be inertia, like a dinosaur it'll take a while before people realise it's dead.
Welly wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:07 pm
Plug in Hybrid - Don't know what that means.
I'm the same, I have no idea because it interests me about as much as becoming a halibut. Ah, here we go (why is this so dull?) it's like a Prius but you can also charge the batteries by plugging into a standard mains socket. Woo. Err, I thought that was the point of hybrids, seems ridiculous that you can't do that anyway.

Diesel - on the road to hell. Taxes will increase in order to drive (ha!) them off the road, while inertia means they'll be an easy target for the tax man so expect ownership to become rather grim. Meanwhile emissions standards will make them impossible to produce economically and manufacturers will stop making them.

Petrol - possibly safe for now, although tiny overstressed engines will mean they go in the bin after 5 years.

Hybrid - you'll have to plan every journey carefully, budget for new batteries every 3 to 5 years.

Plug-in hybrid - ditto with a 13 amp plug.

Fully electric - hahahahahehehehehehohohohohoho good luck with that Elon.

Hydrogen fuel cell - too easy to turn into a bomb.

Horse - finicky, temperamental, mostly insane but at least if it does go wrong you can eat it.
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

GingerMagic
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by GingerMagic »

I see many cars, mostly Clios to be fair, that have writing on the back that says 'Powered by Fairy Dust'...
Does anyone know where I can get this stuff, as it isn't available at my local fuel station.?

Talking of emissions, my neighbour has a newish FIAT convertible thing which is fast* approaching 2 years old.
He has just had notice from FIAT that due to new regulations his 1.4l twin turbo will never pass an MOT.
FIAT have kindly* offered to buy the car back and give him a discount on a new FIAT 500 eyesore edition.
If he declined then he will have trouble selling the thing next year when it is due it's first MOT.
Not sure about the Subaru? equivalent model though.

Taxi anyone?
1999 T4 family wagon
2005 Vauxhall Meriva
1998 406 V6 Coupe - Midlife crisis..!
PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Bournemouth area.

rwb
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by rwb »

My established modus operandi appears to be £5k and run it until it's dead which seems to involve about 150k miles over 8 years.

Right now a 3.0 HDi in a Jag XF is starting to be gettable in that price range. If I can live with a slushmatic.

However, I like the 407.

C6 curious. (It's basically a 407 with the Citroen suspension, but I suspect that the 407 is actually nicer to sit in.)

Total cost of ownership of the 407 has been 20p/mile £4321/year (got it 6 years old 74k, had it 5 years so far)
Total cost of ownership of the 406 was 21p/mile £3128/year (got it 3 years old 82k, had it 8 years)
In hindsight: those 3 years made a big difference. The 406 did feel much 'newer' when I got it than did the 407.

As far as electric goes I seeTesla as the most credible because I think that established manufacturers are just bunging some token gesture electricity thingies onto what they already do.
I'm still convinced that there is something that isn't being learned from diesel-electric and electric railway locomotives.

Current: 407 2.2 HDi 170 & C6 2.7 HDi.
Former: 406 1.9 TD; 406 HDi 90; 407 2.2 160; 307cc 180; 508 HDi 140.
Map of PeugeotForums users offering PP2k

steve_earwig
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by steve_earwig »

Sure there is, they don't make cars big enough. Diesel generator, electric motors, increased road tax to pay for all the new bridges.... :cheesy:

You know Porsche produced a prototype petrol-electric hybrid tank as his bid for the production of a heavy tank capable of wielding the mighty re-purposed 88mm anti-aircraft cannon in 1942. It went to the proving grounds in front of Her Hitler on his birthday. It caught fire.
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

mjb
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by mjb »

Diesel - dead. also stinks.

Petrol - the fuel of the gods

Hybrid - possibly in the future, I quite like the look of the Porsche Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid Sport Turismo (takes breath, Germans like long names don't they!). I like fast estates... At an eye-watering £150-200k new it won't be for a good while yet, although I expect depreciation will be harsh on them. Not much faster than my AMG estate tho, so I can wait... in a big cloud of tyre smoke :supafrisk:

Electric - maybe for the missus (school run is 30 miles a day). Prices are WAY too high and the range of models is severely limited, usually to mid-size poverty spec. If Kia do an electric top trim Picanto, we'll be very interested, although it'd have to be a belter of a power plant to come close to the cheeky fun of the petrol models. Also, running costs are actually very high for a lot of makes where you buy the car and just rent the battery, which takes away a lot of the economic benefit to driving an electric car, especially 2nd hand
<steve_earwig> I think this forum is more about keeping our cars going with minimal outlay than giving our cars more reason to go bang

Welly
The moderator formally known as Welton
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by Welly »

GingerMagic wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:45 pm
Talking of emissions, my neighbour has a newish FIAT convertible thing which is fast* approaching 2 years old.
He has just had notice from FIAT that due to new regulations his 1.4l twin turbo will never pass an MOT.
That's rediculous, what's going on there?

Doggy - might be worth a squint at the Prius, I know what everyone thinks about them but 'YouTube' them and they do massive mileages and everything works properly, all those Taxi drivers would confirm the same, replacement batteries are now cheap* compared to the old scare stories and DIY-able.

In my opinion manufacturers have failed to develop decent electric/hybrid options and have fallen behind.
Cars in my care:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 German Diesel botherer with new tyre grippage
2010 Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo de' explosions, bizarre gearbox model
2010 Renner Twingo refreshingly simple

PeterN
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by PeterN »

Common rail diesel made in the early 2000s. Simpler and longer lasting engines, relatively cheap (all I can afford) and you stand a good chance of being able to repair them yourself. In addition to the 406 I now have a C220 Cdi Merc estate from 2001, no DMF no DPF and its presently done 220k miles and still going strong a plus 60 mpg on the motorway, its a 6 speed manual.

Peter

trufflehunt
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by trufflehunt »

Not sure at the moment.

For all the emissions, DPF, FAP reasons etc.., I'd prefer to be away from diesels.

However for budget reasons of around £1000, choices are not great.
And I'd prefer to stay away from a higher mileage 1000cc 3 cylnder jobbie.
Although I need the max fuel economy.

It comes down to something like a Toyoya Avensis, or Corolla diesel of around 2004/2005 vintage,
with around 150,000 on the clock.

Or a late Mk1, or early Mk2 Yaris petrol with around 120,000.

The reason for Toyota is for reliability, long term costs better than just about anything.

I like to have one car that is a side project, which I can go outside and 'fettle'.., in this case the Mk1 MX5.

But 2 cars that need sorting is a pain.
2002 VW Golf 1.9 TDI (100 bhp)
1993 Mazda MX5 Mk1 1.6
2000 "W" HDI 110 Executive Saloon (Recycled).

Doggy
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by Doggy »

I've been looking around and find that petrol equivalents in most cases are no cheaper to buy, tax, typically use at least 20% more fuel, often have less power and always much less torque. I don't think the diesel era is over for me yet.

Peter's Merc suggestion has go me thinking - they weren't on my radar, but there are one or two that appeal.

My bro's just got a 407 2.2 GT SW that is growing on me a bit. Still like the newer C5 estate, but 2.2 versions of either are vanishingly rare and I think I'd miss the performance if I settled for a 2.0 138 bhp 407 or C5.

Anybody got any experience of the 160 bhp 2.0 HDi as fitted to post 2010 Citreon C5's 508's etc?

(Oh, I did look at the Prius, but don't think its really got enough space).
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate (2012-19)
2009 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi VTR+ Estate

caprixpack
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by caprixpack »

I replaced the 406 shed diesel getting 50mpg to a focus st 2.5 5cyl turbo getting 25mpg :twisted: :(
1984 924 2.0 n/a crystal Green - The daily
2005 VW Passat tdi 130 Highline, now 170bhp & 290ft/lb
2000 Peugeot 406 2.0 hdi - stood for 4 years, fresh mot and mostly working.

trem1
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by trem1 »

Doggy wrote:I've been looking around and find that petrol equivalents in most cases are no cheaper to buy, tax, typically use at least 20% more fuel, often have less power and always much less torque. I don't think the diesel era is over for me yet.

Peter's Merc suggestion has go me thinking - they weren't on my radar, but there are one or two that appeal.

My bro's just got a 407 2.2 GT SW that is growing on me a bit. Still like the newer C5 estate, but 2.2 versions of either are vanishingly rare and I think I'd miss the performance if I settled for a 2.0 138 bhp 407 or C5.

Anybody got any experience of the 160 bhp 2.0 HDi as fitted to post 2010 Citreon C5's 508's etc?

(Oh, I did look at the Prius, but don't think its really got enough space).
My sons got a 2.0 hdi 407 remapped to 186 bhp and son in law has a 2.2 407 remapped to 210bhp,so the power is there to be had.

Sent from my K013 using Tapatalk



2004 Iron Grey 407se 136bhp......Written Off
2006 Moonstone blue 407 se 136 bhp.....Written off
2006 silver 407 SW..........replacement

Doggy
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by Doggy »

That's a very good point. A 2-minute scan of HDi Tuning's website shows you can get a 16V 2.0 407/C5 upped to about 170 bhp, with or without DPF delete for about £150 tops.
Makes those cars a much more attractive proposition, thank you for the heads-up. 8)
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate (2012-19)
2009 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi VTR+ Estate

grasmere59
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Re: Fuel choice for your next car?

Post by grasmere59 »

I know your looking at French Eric but what about a Mondeo diesel estate,it's still a DW10 engine.
2011 "11" Mondeo TXS est 200ps in Grey
2003 "53" 110 hdi Executive Estate in Diablo Red
2001 "51" BMW 530i sport auto in Black
2012 "62" Yamaha XT1200 Super Tenere
1974 "M" Honda CB500/4
1994 "M" Kawasaki Zephyr 1100
1998 "S" Honda XRV 750 Africa Twin

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