406 HPi

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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jasper5
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406 HPi

Post by jasper5 » Tue May 15, 2018 4:26 pm

Some of you may know that my brother and I have the 406 HPi petrol which I rescued and got back on the road...

Anyway, I'm having some issues with it regarding bad running, cutting out, etc.

My brother locked the immobiliser jump starting a flat battery after the car had been stood for a while...I reprogrammed the keys and the car started up right away and ran fine....whilst the engine was running I decided to run through a global test when the engine started running badly and cut out then wouldn't start.
I got it started after taking off the fuel pressure sensor and cleaning it....it ran fine then back to square one.

I got this from pp2000...bear in mind I have fitted 3 map sensors as I keep getting map sensor error...I understand that you can get map sensor errors with fuel pressure issues.

Inlet manifold pressure sensor short circuit to positive.
Fuel pressure regulation fault fall in output.
ECU internal (CAN).

Maybe the pp2000 experts can shed light on the situation.
I've ordered a fuel rail pressure sensor from the dealer btw.

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DaiRees
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Re: 406 HPi

Post by DaiRees » Wed May 16, 2018 6:50 pm

Oh no :cry:

I'm no help at all but I hope you get her fixed mate, keep us posted.
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Doggy
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Re: 406 HPi

Post by Doggy » Wed May 16, 2018 10:31 pm

No experience with petrol engines & PP2k, but here's my 2p worth....

Inlet manif press sensor - is it giving a reading in engine ecu parameters?
I've no idea what it should read, but if it's downstream of the throttle you'd expect to see a vacuum on the overun, less at idle and little or nothing with the throttle open. If it doesn't show anything sensible, then maybe it's kaput, or the ecu can't 'see' it.
Diesels show boost pressure as absolute values, (i.e. not taking account of atmospheric pressure), so you get about 1000 mbar at idle and up to 2400 mbar on full boost.

Fuel press reg fault - I know you've had trouble with this before, (or Dai did / was it both of you)?
Maybe it's back again. IIRC you swapped the regulator just after getting it, (or am I getting confused again)?

ECU internal (CAN) - I have no idea. Maybe a dodgy ecu, maybe just a loose connection. I'm guessing these are going to be vanishingly rare. Do you know what make/model it is?

Hope that might help / not waste your time?
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate

jasper5
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Re: 406 HPi

Post by jasper5 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:19 pm

DaiRees wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:50 pm
Oh no :cry:

I'm no help at all but I hope you get her fixed mate, keep us posted.

I've ordered a fuel rail pressure sensor from the dealers...I'm gambling £80 that the sensor is faulty...I've had low fuel pressure in the recent past plus my brother broke down and the Green Flag guy told him to wait half an hour until the fuel pressure stabilised then he would be fine...the guy was correct!
My brother has given up on the car and bought a Mondeo so it's off the road until I fix it or give up on it myself...If I fix it i plan to take it to Pugfest...time will tell!
I'm on holiday for a week from Saturday and the car is in Yorkshire so it will be a couple of weeks before I can get back to look at it.

jasper5
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Re: 406 HPi

Post by jasper5 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:23 pm

Doggy wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:31 pm
No experience with petrol engines & PP2k, but here's my 2p worth....

Inlet manif press sensor - is it giving a reading in engine ecu parameters?
I've no idea what it should read, but if it's downstream of the throttle you'd expect to see a vacuum on the overun, less at idle and little or nothing with the throttle open. If it doesn't show anything sensible, then maybe it's kaput, or the ecu can't 'see' it.
Diesels show boost pressure as absolute values, (i.e. not taking account of atmospheric pressure), so you get about 1000 mbar at idle and up to 2400 mbar on full boost.

Fuel press reg fault - I know you've had trouble with this before, (or Dai did / was it both of you)?
Maybe it's back again. IIRC you swapped the regulator just after getting it, (or am I getting confused again)?

ECU internal (CAN) - I have no idea. Maybe a dodgy ecu, maybe just a loose connection. I'm guessing these are going to be vanishingly rare. Do you know what make/model it is?

Hope that might help / not waste your time?

I'll have to go back and check the parameters. I'm going to change the fuel rail pressure sensor and see what happens.

I'll try to find out the make of the ECU...my diagnostic guy checked the ECU for me a couple of months ago...he was suspicious of it, he told me that these ECU can't be fixed!

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GingerMagic
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Re: 406 HPi

Post by GingerMagic » Thu May 17, 2018 5:31 pm

Forgive me John, but I am no expert.....
To me the 'short circuit to positive' makes me think of a break in the wire between the sensor (map or fuel pressure) and the ECU
Is it a permanent fault or an intermediate one?
Best of luck with it anyway - it's a great car otherwise.
1999 T4 family wagon, slow as a turd but the kids like it
2002 Citroen Xsara Picasso Hdi90 - Dirtied by the kids, Dented by the wife....
Sadly sold the 406, best cars I have ever owned
PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Bournemouth area.

jasper5
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Re: 406 HPi

Post by jasper5 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:58 pm

All permanent faults GM.
I'm sort of wondering about those under carpet connections now!

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steve_earwig
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Re: 406 HPi

Post by steve_earwig » Thu May 17, 2018 7:02 pm

Must be worth a check, even if they look ok you could power down and do the disconnect/reconnect thing (aka reseat the connectors) while you've got the carpets up.

Wonder if it'd be worth doing that to the BSI, ECU and anything else that takes your fancy (yes, I know nothing :oops: )
Talking bollocks sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - Can somebody stand by with an extinguisher?

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GingerMagic
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Re: 406 HPi

Post by GingerMagic » Thu May 17, 2018 7:43 pm

I didn't realise that one of the under carpet connectors carries the signal from the rear abs to the front of the car - this is what was wrong with Sonia's car / old car / new car......

I'm not sure if there are engine wires there, but a chap on the Coupé forum replaced his entire engine loom with a second hand one and it fixed his issue that had bugged him ( and the cars previous owner ) for a couple of years.

Edit;
Ive just asked him over on the dark side - it took him 2 hours each way - so a long job with notes to remember what goes where..
1999 T4 family wagon, slow as a turd but the kids like it
2002 Citroen Xsara Picasso Hdi90 - Dirtied by the kids, Dented by the wife....
Sadly sold the 406, best cars I have ever owned
PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Bournemouth area.

jasper5
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Posts: 3636
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:30 pm

Re: 406 HPi

Post by jasper5 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:55 am

Had a word with my diagnostics guy this morning (he checked the ECU for me last time the car was here) he reckons I should take note of what the BSI has stored in it as the ECU fault could be connected...I didn't do a global test last time :roll: clearly I should have!

He reckons it's time to give up on this, but I'm not finished yet :!:

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