Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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arber333
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Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 » Wed May 09, 2018 10:14 am

Hi All!

I have bought 406C 3.0 V6 2001. That is ES9 J4S engine yes? Well it came with broken tranny and some misfire DTCs. I have driven some but now it is not possible. Mind you engine is still running but car doesnt move since transmission has gone into lockdown. It would cause €€€ to replace oil and rectify errors there!
I like the car very much and i would like to put electric motor instead of current V6. I have done EVs before and is nothing hard. Car will run and move.
I have one Nissan Leaf motor and inverter that would fit inside engine bay. Leaf motor comes with gearbox and driveshafts to complete drivetrain. I wouldnt need auto transmission that way. Also i would fit Leaf AC compressor to have use stock AC unit.
The problem i am facing now is that Peugeot still uses their proprietary VAN or K bus instead of CAN bus. And i cant dechypher it to fool software into thinking engine is running. I tried to decypher it with M2 Macchina and other CAN loggers but they dont see the traffic because they are not CAN protocol.
So i would have to go the hard way and fake each signal that comes from engine. That will require timing (scope) and precise wiring diagram for that engine, so i dont miss any sensors.

Do any of you have access to 3.0 V6 wiring schematics? I would need pages for the engine management. I only have the plain 406 ones and they have different engines.

tnx for your help. I intend to post here my progress.

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mjb
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by mjb » Wed May 09, 2018 1:38 pm

Wow that's a project and a half!

I've been away from pugs for a long time now, but iirc VAN used a really weird baud rate, so you won't find anything off the shelf that'll speak it. If you've got a decent digital scope, you should be able to read the bus and possibly work out what you need to fake the engine ecu, but I suspect faking the sensors would indeed be easier.

Another option would be to strip all the electrics and use an aftermarket (racing) instrument cluster

The schematics used to be behind a paywall at http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com but I don't know if that's still the case
<steve_earwig> I think this forum is more about keeping our cars going with minimal outlay than giving our cars more reason to go bang

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Bailes1992
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by Bailes1992 » Wed May 09, 2018 4:22 pm

How about replacing the wiring with one from a D8 without the VAN?
2016 Ford Focus Style 1.5TDCi (120ps) - Company Car
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arber333
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by arber333 » Thu May 10, 2018 6:14 am

Yes, i dont see the problem with interior and instrument cluster. However if i would replace wiring and ECU i would have to replace the instrument cluster also because immobiliser transponder is in there. So better to simulate running engine. I would like to make a "fake engine" Arduino Due for example. Since signals are general analog voltage and pulses i think i can do this. Even knock sensors wont be a problem i think. I just have to time/slave them to some signal that is ever present when engine is running. I think i will slave everything to CAM shaft signal.

But! To figure all sensors that are used for this engine i would need wiring schematic for ES9 J4S. Does anyone have that?
Also do any of you know of a good method how to spy on the wire without damaging it much? I dont like to put holes in isolation, corosion...

I read somewhere that my engine has multiplexed wiring. Does that mean different signals are running on the same wire? Where to get data on that?

tnx

frog
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by frog » Fri May 11, 2018 8:00 am

arber333 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 6:14 am
But! To figure all sensors that are used for this engine i would need wiring schematic for ES9 J4S. Does anyone have that?
There are the "SEDRE" disks. I have them, but the're a bit too large to post here as an attachment :wink:
arber333 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 6:14 am
Also do any of you know of a good method how to spy on the wire without damaging it much? I dont like to put holes in isolation, corosion...
Who cares about a tiny hole in a wire if you just removed the complete drive train?? :shock: You might be able to stick a small needle or wire clamp in the back of a plug, where the metal of the crimp connector can be reached.
arber333 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 6:14 am
I read somewhere that my engine has multiplexed wiring. Does that mean different signals are running on the same wire? Where to get data on that?
Yes, some signaling is done via a "protocol", like CAN or VAN. Most (if not all) sensors that feed into the ECU (engine control unit) are analog, though. But i think you might as well ditch the complete ECU, as well as all other electronics, since you're completely re-inventing the car here.
mjb wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:38 pm
I've been away from pugs for a long time now, but iirc VAN used a really weird baud rate, so you won't find anything off the shelf that'll speak it.
It can be done, there are some people out there who hacked together a VAN bus reader on an Arduino (or alike). It is not so much the baud rate that is weird, it is the "Manchester" bit encoding that it uses: after every four bits, a fifth bit is stuffed which is always the inverse of the previous bit. This makes it a "self-clocking signal". VAN bus offered some pretty nice advantages, downside being that the rest of the world uses CAN which has become the de-facto standard.

I collected some resources on the internet; could send you a zip file (~14 MBytes) if you like. I never made an Arduino VAN bus reader myself, but if i had a bit more time, this would certainly be one of my "hobby" projects :D

I admire your courage. But as said this will be "a project and a half" :D. You really need to be a happy hacker, not afraid to dive deep into all the little bits and bytes involved.
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

stevewalsh
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by stevewalsh » Fri May 11, 2018 9:17 am

Some of you guys are far to clever. You make the rest of us look like numptys..

frog
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by frog » Fri May 11, 2018 9:58 am

stevewalsh wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:17 am
Some of you guys are far to clever. You make the rest of us look like numptys..
"clever" is not the word. More like "autistic obsession" combined with "too much spare time" :wink:
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

PeterN
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Re: Peugeot 406 Coupe EV conversion

Post by PeterN » Fri May 11, 2018 10:03 am

Wow! What a project, I have done a fair few diesel conversions in my time but RWD and prior to engine electronics. To me they would be much easier than this one and I was an electronics engineer for 50 years but that was before digital although it was just coming into TVs before I retired, I'm afraid I don't understand it anymore. I could probably manage the mechanical work but as for the electronics I'm past my sell by date.

Peter

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