Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:36 pm

Yes well my pp2000 options are slightly different; as there is no BSI I click on

ECU config
Test by ECU
protect this vehicle
Transponder Peugeot
Then Programming
Then enter the pin code
Select to program 1 key
Turn ignition off then on
Then turn ignition off, remove key, reinsert key and turn ignition on..

Receive fault: "key programming faulty"

Now I am baffled

frog
2.0 16v
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:45 pm

:cry:

afaik, the "Programming" of a new key involves:
- reading of the (unique) ID of the transponder chip in the new key, and then
- storing that ID into the car's BSI / ECU

So the only thing I can think of is that the reading of the ID of the new transponder chip fails. This can be because:
- the transponder antenna is failing (it is the black plasting ring around the key barrel),
- the wiring into the transponder antenna is broken, and/or
- you are using an incompatible transponder chip.

Other than that, I am out of idea's :cry:
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:53 pm

Is there any preceding necessary with the ID 33 chip?!

I have coded all 32 bytes to 0

So DATA: 00000000000000000000000000000000 Type: 33 WR

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:36 pm

So I found fuse 1 blown... but in the 1998 model it's the cigarette lighter socket...

Didn't change anything... the only thing I can think of is that I am using a PCF7931 chip

So I've ordered a PCF7930 chip and that should arrive soon...

If that doesn't work, maybe it's the transponder cylinder ring but I really doubt it since the keys were working a few years back before they were lost/stolen...

Could it be my pp2000 software? I go through diagbox v7.76 and it says pp2000 (600.75)

However my software does indeed read fault codes and clears them...

Maybe the chip should be precoded? I don't know I'm running out of options now...

How do I find out who has a pp2000 near me? That could help for a couple beer tokens... north Londoner

frog
2.0 16v
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:55 am

I have coded all 32 bytes to 0

So DATA: 00000000000000000000000000000000 Type: 33 WR
I think that is where your problem lies. Probably, Peugeot issues their keys with a specific data format that may include checksums, secrets and/or passwords.

Looking here and here, it appears that this transponder chip has 1024 bits (128 bytes) of EEPROM memory.

Setting (the first?) 32 bytes to 0 leaves the other 96 byte untouched? I think the BSI software and PP2000 expect some specific formatting of the data.

My advice is to try to get hold of another key (from the scrappies) from the same car model/year, and try to program that key (unchanged) into the car with PP2000.
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:38 pm

Frog, you were correct, the data on the chip wasn't right to correspond with the car so it wouldn't pick it up...

From what I googled there are two code types

PG1 and PG2...

I translated many forums and google searches my problem in French and translated it back....

I ended up needing PG1 for the 1998 Coupe 406 and it said learning complete!
The parameters page on the pp2000 now shows key recognized (cle recu - instead of cle non recu) and key valid (valide instead of in valide)

Unfortunately since the car has been sat for so long/cranked too much (shooting blanks) it refuses to start...

I don't know what I can do now... the car is essentially stuck in eco mode... when I do a global test with pp2000 it says unable to connect to ECU... airbags sensor works... steering sensor works... suspension doesn't

Will be back with the car tomorrow to see what I can decipher

Put new fuel in, the battery has been put on charge now... will check condition of spark plugs tomorrow

Any advise now would be appreciated... I'll do more googling in the morning

Cheers

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:02 am

This is how I figured it out... with this screenshot... I then used that older key an R reg key 1997 chip it was a PG1 ID33 PCF7931 chip...
IMG_0058.JPG
Also do the relays below look funny?! One is missing (this is under drivers steering wheel)
IMG_0057.JPG

frog
2.0 16v
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:04 am

hooolagon wrote:This is how I figured it out... with this screenshot... I then used that older key an R reg key 1997 chip it was a PG1 ID33 PCF7931 chip...
So, if i understand correctly, you ended up using the transponder chip from the other key you had? And you didn't need the blank chip that you programmed with all 00 bytes?
when I do a global test with pp2000 it says unable to connect to ECU
Can you connect to the ECU in another way? Via the "Test by ECU" function ("ECU configuration and services" --> "Test by ECU" --> "Engines/ automatic gearbox"--> whatever ECU you have: you will get a number of choices, it is essential that you choose exactly the ECU model that is in your car otherwise it will not work).
Also do the relays below look funny?! One is missing (this is under drivers steering wheel)
Diagram from Service Box:
D8 compartment relays.jpg
(259.57 KiB) Not downloaded yet
These relays seem to be only for "comfort" things, not related to engine starting.
I don't know what I can do now... the car is essentially stuck in eco mode...
Don't know if you'll like what i'm going to say, it seems you've now reached the point where your hands will be getting dirty... :cheesy:

Having not been running for a couple of years, all kinds of mechanical things (yuch :wink:) might have gone wrong. Indeed, check the spark, the fuel lines/filter, just all the regular checking that is needed after so many years.

By the way "Stuck in eco mode" is not a reason to for the starting to fail, so ignore that.
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:39 pm

Can't connect to the ecu at all....

Yes I used the chip that was programmed and not the chip I had which was coded with all AAAAA until byte 15 which was 9 and rest AAA that I converted to all zeros and id33

However!!!! I realized... my chip coder came with a CD and the software can calculate random codes which can match the cars alphanumeric sequence - so coded a couple more keys! :-)

Getting smarter by the day hahaha

Okay now today... I checked the spark plugs and no joy... it seems the first three closest to bumper were flooded a bit with engine oil... most likely spilt whilst filling up! Cleaned that, didn't replace the sparks but cleaned them and made sure they're up to scratch...

I did find one fault... can't explain it but the pictures will show what's up!
IMG_0066.JPG
IMG_0065.JPG
I guess I'll be back with the car on Sunday;

Reckon I should make a new post in a different section of the 406oc forum?! Engine perhaps?

frog
2.0 16v
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:42 am

That seems to be an radio interference capacitor, like this one here. It should not prevent the car from starting.

Not being able to communicate with the engine ECU is definitely something worth fixing. It could be bad communication (broken wire?). But it could also be that the ECU is not powered at all (blown fuse? check the fuses under the bonnet). That would certainly prevent the car from starting. In any case, being able to communicate with the engine ECU will give you the possibility to further diagnose any problems via PP2000.
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:18 pm

I have checked all the fuses... they all seem fine, how can I check directly the engine ECU is getting power?

Are there any other fuses apart from the one in the engine passenger side bay and under the steering?!

What is the small connector beside the diagnostics port? It looks like it can take some sort of small two prong wire.... don't reckon it has anything to do with what I'm trying to accomplish but I am curious...

We did unplug the two ecus in the left drivers side engine Bay Area and could have messed it up but they are definitely connected properly...

I read somewhere that using the latest diagbox pp2000 sometimes prevents communication between the computer and specific ECUs however this shouldn't be a problem for me as my generic diagnostic port scanner gets "linking error" and my scanner is made for post 1996 cars

Also that aftermarket radios mess up the k-line and between diagnostic port pin 4 (chassis ground?) and port pin 7 (ECU/ k line) the necessary 3.5volts isn't present and it's usually higher... and cutting that radio k line wire would resolve the issue of higher than 3.5 volts (which causes the link error [linking error]) saying this

I tried using my multimeter from pin 16 (power? 12v) and both either a logical ground (somewhere I think is grounded) and via pin 4 to see if the port is getting 12v but my multimeter is knackered so I couldn't get a conclusive result...

(Anyway - TMI too much information)
Hope this helps anyone else :roll: :lol:

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:54 am

Wahay!!!! The V6 fired up today!!!! God knows how this pug is still alive today, didn't even change any components!!!!

At first today I programmed three chips for the car using PG1 random codes... then my multimeter wasn't reading properly across the battery so I swung it from the wires and it splattered into several pieces... the car probably saw that and knew this guys not joking around and fired up straight after...

No seriously...
I bought a new multimeter then
Checked across pin 4 and pin 16 for 12v checked across pin 4 and 7 for ~3.5v no joy...
Moved to the engine bay connected the negative probe to the negative battery (without disconnecting the battery and started undoing electric connections seeing if they're getting voltage by probing the pins with the red probe saw various 12v and 5v on pretty much all the connectors (no idea which needs 5/12 but as long as they're getting a round-number voltage ish I reckon they'd be correct) then
Everything was literally okay so moved on to the big stuff and tested the ecus by unplugging the power socket it seemed beside them and probing those and found various 12's there so connected that all back up...
still "no joy" so I thought lemme try fiddle with the diagnostics port
Gave it a few wiggles here and there
Sat back up in agony,
Nephew noticed the dash now showing a check engine light so I began probing the diagnostics port some more, tried scanning it... no joy... wiggled the diagnostics port some more, then
Noticed the airbag light flashing, thought to myself what the heck lemme start the car...
Low and behold the hand from god came out and the thing just rumbled into life! Magical.

Absolutely magical, should have seen my nephews face lol

So it was either in all that disconnecting reconnecting or wiggling OR maybe since we put new fuel on top of old fuel it finally was viable enough to start...

Anyway sorry for the lame story; took it for a spin, floored it a bit.... had white smoke coming out either sides of the V6 banks... most likely (I presume) coolant/valve cover gasket needs redoing and a full major service since it's just started after 3 years

Proud of myself! Brought a pug back from the dead

Cheers! Hope this helps anyone out there! :lol:

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:03 am

I realized there is no thanks button on this forum, but thank you frog! Really appreciate your time and help... peugeot may not have the most easy going cars but the owners and fan base certainly are a delight! Cheers!

Until next time!
H :mrgreen:

frog
2.0 16v
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:55 am

Good to hear! Glad you got it fixed! :cheesy: So the final hurdle seems to have been bad electrical connections?

Which is not that strange after sitting still for a few years. I'd advise you to buy some electric contact cleaner spray and spray all the contacts and plugs that you can find. After spraying each connector, reseat and unplug a few times. Then let it unplugged for like 15 minutes before reseating, so that the spray residu can evaporate. Use colored clips or clothes pegs to mark every connector that you unplugged; you're bound to forget one or two after 15 minutes (at least, i do :wink: )

Thanks for your appreciation, my pleasure. Thanks also for sharing your progress, it was very useful to learn from your experience!
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

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