Air con compressor not working

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
RayneR
3.0 24v
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:13 am
Location: Portugal

Air con compressor not working

Post by RayneR » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:17 am

Hi guys, great to be back with my 406! It was months without it, as it was repairing from an accident a big one..but well not everything is working as it should.. but hell i think the electrician that was working on the car didn't know what he was working on..

First he tells me that it's probably the bsi is dead on that part because he says that on the engine bay the eletrical stuff is all good, but from inside there's no power to engage the compressor. However the compressor is working because there's a wire on the engine bay under the battery that if you feed up 12v+ on that wire the compressor kicks in.

The climate control unit i think is working fine because you press auto everything turns on the " auto " message and the " a/c" icon and the blower starts sending wind ...but the compressor doesn't kick in .


Well truth be told like 2 years ago my bsi had water ingress and the car started playing up inside like it was christmas lol, but i went right away to my garage and he sort of cleaned and dry it very well because everything started to work again normally.

Now can it be really the BSI or is any relay that probably on changing the whole dashboard could have got damaged ? It sounds a bit rubish to be something inside BSI because alot other things wouldn't work and not just the air con compressor that's my opinion.


Thank you so much, really good to be back from this nightmare.
2000/May 406 Estate 2.0 HDI 110bhp DW10ATED now with 205k km & now with cruise control & now remaped @ 134bhp :lol:

User avatar
Doggy
Mod with a 2.2 HDi, De-Fapped!
Posts: 10021
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:49 pm
Location: Northants

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by Doggy » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:11 pm

I guess your condenser was crushed in the accident and you have just had it repaired and re-gassed?

When I changed my condenser, my compressor would not cut in either. Like you I applied 12V to the clutch connector to prove it works, but I did it with the engine running. I was thinking I would let it run for a minute or so to prove the refrigeration works, then fix whatever the electrical problem was........

After half a minute or so it was blowing lovely cold air, so I turned it off and reconnected everything normally. To my surprise, it now started up as it should.

I think what happens is that the pressure sensor does not 'see' the residual gas pressure until the compressor has been running because of the non-return valve under the pressure sensor. The ecu will not turn on the compressor because it 'thinks' there is no gas. After it has run once the sensor registers the residual perssure and everything works normally.

It's worth a try.
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate

User avatar
RayneR
3.0 24v
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:13 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by RayneR » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:06 pm

Thank you doggy, yes at first i replaced with a used condenser like almost all of the replacement things came from the same donor car ( thank god i found this guy putting an 406 for spares :cheesy: ).

But apparently after re gasing it would desapear almost instantly, it was the condenser that was not good but it was replaced with new one and now it's missing that compressor kicking in when we call him.

So you suggest i just let the compressor with the direct injection of 12v+ and engine running and the blower with A/C On for a while so it will make the system check up the status of the stuff ?

Thank you so much... I'm so happy i have my 406 back, love this car.

By the way do you know what's this plugs ( red,red,brown(2wires) ) ? :

And another thing my rain sensor is missing one of the suports to hold it to the mirror, they must had lost it or broken while at the repair service but i only noticed it today when i was changing the wires of the auto dim rear mirror to another location ( right on the top in the courtesy light unit and sunroof switch etc), i havent tested it if it works anyway but it does have some declination of one of the sides thats missing the holder so it's not touching the windscreen, how expensive is it ?

Image
2000/May 406 Estate 2.0 HDI 110bhp DW10ATED now with 205k km & now with cruise control & now remaped @ 134bhp :lol:

benczuk
3.0 24v
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 3:33 pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by benczuk » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:46 pm

erm, same / similar issues here. just had it re gassed. where would one connect the 12v feed to?
2002 HDi 2.2 GTX Estate de-fapped

User avatar
Doggy
Mod with a 2.2 HDi, De-Fapped!
Posts: 10021
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:49 pm
Location: Northants

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by Doggy » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:23 pm

What I did was to remove the electrical connector from the compressor, measure the resistance between either terminal and the compressor casing.
One will be almost zero ohms, the other something like 8 - 10 ohms - this is the one you need to apply 12V to. (Do it with the engine stopped first to make sure you hear the clutch operate).
Please bear in mind that forcing this on with the engine running over-rides all the safety features built into the controls, so don't leave it on. If it's going to do any good, it will do so in the first minute. My idea was to let the compressor run just long enough that someone holding their hand over an airvent could detect it cooling, proving I only had a contol issue, (I was guessing the relay in the BSI), but to my surprise it worked by itself afterwards.
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate

User avatar
RayneR
3.0 24v
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:13 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by RayneR » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:29 pm

The wire i'm connecting the 12v+ feed is this one:

Image

I do hear the compressor clutch engaging even when engine is stopped .. i'hav put it working and it's really sending cold air .. but hell it didn't worked afterwards i disconnect the wire :(

The eletrician nearby said that there's feed inside the cabin but after that the feed is lost... so in this case they could just rewire a new cable ? Or he is just saying crap and it's just a matter of the relay in the BSI ?

It's strange that he said the problem is the BSI because if it was the BSI the most probably things to happen is that a lot more stuff wouldn't work...
2000/May 406 Estate 2.0 HDI 110bhp DW10ATED now with 205k km & now with cruise control & now remaped @ 134bhp :lol:

User avatar
fattail95
2.0 Turbo
Posts: 401
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:35 pm

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by fattail95 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:52 am

Hi,

Unfortunately I had this same issue with my semi-mux 406, and it is one of the downsides of the design of the pre-multiplexed BSI's as the A/C relay is inside the BSI, and these can and do fail and cause serious headaches to those who aren't aware of the issue. Last summer I noticed when I was on a stretch of dual carriageway that the air from the vents was not cool at all, I came to a stop, turned off the A/C and tried to re-enable it, listening for the typical thunk of the relay energising and the compressor clutch kicking in. But to my surprise, there was no clunk, and no cool air - so my first port of call was re-gas thinking the refrigerant was low after a few years of not having it done. So, one successful re-gas later and a confirmation that it was holding pressure fine, I tried it again but yet again no results. Next step was the pressure switch, replaced with no results. Mystified as to what it could be, I next decided to replace the condenser because the old was really nasty and looking worse for wear. Still nothing - manually energising the compressor meant cold air, but no way would it activate without a manual 12v feed. So, after a bit of research, I found a few articles noting the potential weakness in the BSI, so I popped it out and tried to manually energise the relay on the board, but nothing. No clicking, even though the board looked perfectly intact without any dry joints or heat damage. So, next step, send the BSI away with another used one from eBay to be virginised and then cloned after successfully testing the relay on the new BSI. 5 days later, back it came and it went straight into the car - et voila! Freezing cold air and a very happy me, albeit quite a bit out of pocket...

After having these issues, I've decided to get another second hand BSI and have it virginised and then my EEPROM put on it so I have yet another backup, as I intend to keep the car for a good few years yet and want to have functioning A/C for all of them! The BSI also came with a spare semi-mux engine ECU so I'm going to get mine cloned onto that so I'll have a spare ECU too. The actual BSI cloning only cost me £70 to have done so it's worth doing IMO.

I feel a new BSI should sort a lot of the issues you're having, but just don't take it to Peugeot to have it done!! Replacing the BSI is the only way to go as the decision to enable the A/C is made internally in the BSI, so you can't simply intercept the wires before/after and eliminate this dodgy relay design. It would also be unwise to wire it yourself and bypass the BSI as the system would no longer be temperature controlled, the compressor will be running 100% of the time and as there is no computer to analyse refrigerant temperature and shut off the compressor when necessary, you'll likely do serious harm to the critial components of the A/C system and cause massive damage.

Hope that helps and sorry for the wall of text :lol:

Ben
Last edited by fattail95 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
2001/Y Peugeot 406 2.0 HDi Saloon
150hp/330nm Powerflow stainless exhaust Kevlar clutch Cat delete EGR & Doser delete Leather interior Windows tinted Cruise control 5 dial cluster Yatour bluetooth Starfish alloys Twin rear fogs

User avatar
jonsowman
3.0 24v
Posts: 1707
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK (J9 M25)

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by jonsowman » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:55 am

If you still have the dead BSIs, I'd be interested in having a look, as I'm pretty sure I can clone/virginise these 8)

If anyone wants to donate one, they'll get a free virginised/cloned BSI in return (if I can make it work, no guarantees).
Image
2002 V6 SE Coupé (210bhp) - (Aegean Blue)
2002 D9 2.2 HDi Exec Estate - Samarkand Blue
PM me for PP2000 diagnostics around Surrey

User avatar
Doggy
Mod with a 2.2 HDi, De-Fapped!
Posts: 10021
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:49 pm
Location: Northants

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by Doggy » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:57 pm

This has jogged my memory - I had a similar problem on my previous 406, which turned out to be the BSI deciding there was a fault on the compressor clutch circuit, which I managed to reset and the fault never returned. It's a long shot, but may be worth a try....viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15688&hilit=BSI
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate

User avatar
RayneR
3.0 24v
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:13 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by RayneR » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:18 pm

meh.. BSI is very expensive here :( also i have to change the ignition barrel and all that crap... :( :( :( :cry: :cry:

This is a good bye to 406, after all the things i'hav passed i didn't deserved this :( , probably going to sell it ...
2000/May 406 Estate 2.0 HDI 110bhp DW10ATED now with 205k km & now with cruise control & now remaped @ 134bhp :lol:

User avatar
steve_earwig
Moderator
Posts: 18940
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:09 pm
Location: Jastrebarsko, Croatia http://www.jastrebarsko.hr/lokacija/

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by steve_earwig » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:21 pm

Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

User avatar
RayneR
3.0 24v
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:13 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by RayneR » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:37 pm

Steve, Thanks for that :shock:

I think i don't have all the electrician and hand habilitys to do all the work but i will try to do this ... The problem is that i don't know to do some things that is asking to do, like checking the continuity of whatever is asking to check lol, and some others ...

But i promise i will check this issue right after summer, now i must enjoy the return of my beloved 406 and my vacations :oops: :P


Love you guys for the support in our life's with the 406 :)
2000/May 406 Estate 2.0 HDI 110bhp DW10ATED now with 205k km & now with cruise control & now remaped @ 134bhp :lol:

User avatar
fattail95
2.0 Turbo
Posts: 401
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:35 pm

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by fattail95 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:23 pm

RayneR wrote:meh.. BSI is very expensive here :( also i have to change the ignition barrel and all that crap... :( :( :( :cry: :cry:

This is a good bye to 406, after all the things i'hav passed i didn't deserved this :( , probably going to sell it ...
No need for a new ignition barrel, if the BSI is cloned nothing else needs changing, same keys, same engine ECU etc. The relay can be replaced in the BSI (as posted above) but use LOTS of flux and get the board nice and hot before applying solder.
2001/Y Peugeot 406 2.0 HDi Saloon
150hp/330nm Powerflow stainless exhaust Kevlar clutch Cat delete EGR & Doser delete Leather interior Windows tinted Cruise control 5 dial cluster Yatour bluetooth Starfish alloys Twin rear fogs

User avatar
RayneR
3.0 24v
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:13 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by RayneR » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:47 pm

Well today have noticed some green liquid already dried on the engine under cover and the compressor itself and tried once again putting directly the air con working from the 12v feed and for my surprise this is what happened:

1- No more Cold Air, from the first time i posted this topic it was sending cold air but now it's not...

2- A noisy sound coming from the vents even with fan turned off but compressor engaged and engine running.

WORTH noting the A/C Radiator is new. ALSO The Pressure Switch seems to be good, no leaking.

Here's Video and some photos:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

SOOOO Despite the leakage ( ON Compressor????? ) the problem seems the BSI anyway ? Also check the vid if that sound is normal...

Thank you.
2000/May 406 Estate 2.0 HDI 110bhp DW10ATED now with 205k km & now with cruise control & now remaped @ 134bhp :lol:

User avatar
steve_earwig
Moderator
Posts: 18940
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:09 pm
Location: Jastrebarsko, Croatia http://www.jastrebarsko.hr/lokacija/

Re: Air con compressor not working

Post by steve_earwig » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:27 pm

Mine makes similar noises, like fluid squirting about behind the dash. It was much worse before I got it regassed...

Green stuff, where is it coming from? Perhaps you clean up the compressor and see where it starts coming back.
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

Post Reply