[Solved] Wipers not functional

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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samgeot
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[Solved] Wipers not functional

Post by samgeot » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:34 pm

Hello,

2002 406 2.2hdi estate D9

Front wipers stopped working suddenly while I was driving home in the rain (Fortunately I was just around the corner from home). Wipers stopped a third of the way and did not return to bottom position.

Fuses are fine
Front and rear washing pump are functional.
Rear wipers are functional.
Front wiper motor is functional if I give 12 volts directly to the motor. Low and high speed.
Checked the wires at the motor:
[1] Ground: is continious
[2] Has 12 volts
[3] and [4] no voltage but one of them is continuous (does not switch)

This suggests to me that the low and high speed is not switching and the power is also not switching. My guess is either the relays in the BSI, or the com2000. How can I continue diagnosing where the problem lays? How can I check if the com2000(wiper stalk) is working as intended?

I own a Haynes 99-02 service and repair manual. And have studied the wiring diagrams (Diagram 18). Is it normal that the cable colours don't match up with what is in the diagram. For example on the BSI green 16 connector [1] and [9] are supposed to be White and Grey and in the car they are orange and grey.

I'm hoping to still solve this DIY because I can't afford a mechanic. Also this is my only vehicle. I wish I had a D8 now (no com2000 and wiper relay easily replaced)

Thanks for reading. Cheers

P.S. First time working with the electrics in the car.
Last edited by samgeot on Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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steve_earwig
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Re: Wipers not functional

Post by steve_earwig » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:59 pm

Hi there. It is possible for the relays in the engine fuse panel to break, there's one for on/park and one for low/high speed. If you power the motor up and then reconnect it to the car's wiring does it self-park?

The only way I can think of to test the switch (apart from trying another com2000) would be to do an actuator test using Peugeot Planet 2000. If you put your location up maybe there's someone nearby with PP who can help.

Haynes, pfft, better than nothing but the wiring diagrams are crap. PSA don't use colour codes, the wires have codes printed onto them.

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Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

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Doggy
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Re: Wipers not functional

Post by Doggy » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:03 pm

If you can get access to PP2000, it's easy to monitor all the switch & button actions on the COMM2000.

Welcome, BTW. 8)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate

samgeot
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Re: Wipers not functional

Post by samgeot » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:48 pm

My understanding was that the on/off and low/high speed relays were found in the BSI. Am I mistaken?

Removed the two relays, they appear to be non functioning (no resistance over the coil). Maybe I broke them when I removed them (They were in tight).
How do I find a new replacement? On ebay there are some used ones http://www.ebay.de/itm/Relais-232303-Pe ... 1441527881

This might not be anything. But I checked the socket with my multimeter. It appears that pin 87 on the right relay socket has a strange voltage reading.

The right relay socket(perspective looking forward in drivers seat)
pin 30: 12 volts
pin 87: 2.5 volts
pin 87a: 0 volts
pin 86: 12 volts
ping 85: 0 volts

The left relay socket(perspective looking forward in drivers seat)
pin 30: 12 volts
pin 87: 0 volts
pin 87a: 0 volts
pin 86 12 volts
pin 85: 0 volts

No, on its own the wiper motor hasn't moved
I'm located in NRW, Germany. I have a pp2000; However I'm not sure I have the right software.

What do you recommend instead of Haynes?

Thanks.

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steve_earwig
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Re: Wipers not functional

Post by steve_earwig » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:48 pm

If you have com2000 then your car is full-mux and the relays are in the engine fuse panel (BM34 on the diagram) If you don't then they're in the BSI. Not really sure which relays you are looking at there :?

Look for Service Box SEDRE on one of those web sites they're always trying to close down :supafrisk:
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

samgeot
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Re: Wipers not functional

Post by samgeot » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:49 pm

The only two relays in the engine fuse panel :) That's great to hear that the wiper relays are in the engine fuse panel, I've replaced both with slightly smaller ones rated to 35 amps, hopefully they will suffice. Unfortunately wipers still wont turn on.

I believe the wiper stalk is fine, because I hear the relays in the engine fuse panel switching when I change from low to high speed.

Perhaps the problem lies in the wiring somewhere? Slowly running out of ideas here.

As a last resort would be to run some wires from motor to cabin. And have a switch on the centre console. Anyone have experience running new wires from the engine into the cabin?


Cheers

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steve_earwig
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Re: Wipers not functional

Post by steve_earwig » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:22 am

I'm afraid the fuse panel is multiplex and there are 12 relays inside it, soldered onto the board. I suggest exploring all other possibilities before pulling it apart or replacing it.

What software do you have for your PP and why do you think it's wrong?
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

samgeot
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Re: Wipers not functional

Post by samgeot » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:37 pm

Good news! Wipers are working.

Embarrassing part is that I spent 3 days ripping the entire car apart to replace a fuse # 17 in the engine fuse box :oops:

On the bright side, I was able to wash the carpet and lots of the trim, and learned something new.

Small problem, wipers only work for a short time and get progressively slower. This may be due to replacing the two relays with smaller ones? I'll order proper replacements and see if that fixes it.

I'll have to look into PP and SEDRE.

I appreciate your helpful assistance. Thanks.

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steve_earwig
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Re: Wipers not functional

Post by steve_earwig » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:25 pm

Good news but I don't think the slowness has much to do with those relays, maybe the bearings in it are dying and it could have much to do with the fuse blowing in the first place...
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

samgeot
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:10 pm

Re: Wipers not functional

Post by samgeot » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:49 pm

Found 4 relays out of a renault in the junkyard. Different part number but otherwise they are physically identical. I think there is a slight improvement but I'll know for sure when it rains again.

Considering as next step to take the wiper motor out and clean and oil it. Is it possible to open the wiper motor up and check the internals?


Cheers.

samgeot
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:10 pm

Re: Wipers not functional

Post by samgeot » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:46 pm

Hello,

Just wanted to post a conclusion.

Wipers worked for another month and then the motor gave up. I ended up replacing the motor with one from Ebay for 20 Euros. The car wipes like new now :cheesy:

KB: Wiper motor replacement
http://406oc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13270

Thanks again for the assistance.

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steve_earwig
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Re: [Solved] Wipers not functional

Post by steve_earwig » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:29 pm

Ah, I thought that's where we were heading. Motor runs slow and blows fuses, short circuit in the windings or the bearings going stiff. Did you perchance take it to bits or did it go straight into the bin?[/been watching too many teardowns on youtube]
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

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