Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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chalkhills
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Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by chalkhills » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:43 pm

Anyone with experience of this?

I have connected PP2000 to today and enabled cruise options in BSI & Engine ECU (it's called 'Speed regulation' in the Siemens ECU config).
This system uses a single brake and clutch switch as on later full mux 307 etc.
All is looking good and I am about to purchase the later type of COM200 stalk that slides into the LHS of the steering column (It has CC main switch on stalk).
The problem I'm having is that I the clutch is showing [Not Depressed] in PP2000 diag whether operated or not. The switch itself if fine (removed & tested with multimeter) and the brake switch shows up as working no probs in PP2000.
I'm guessing there is a wiring fault (or missing wiring??) between the clutch switch and BSI.

Anyone out there had similar problem?

Thanks in advance

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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by Doggy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:51 pm

Hi and welcome aboard. 8)

We don't believe Siemens equiped 90's ever came with cruise control and AFAIK no-one has found a solution.

I think Bailes1992 had one, but never resolved it, you could try searching his posts.

Hope I'm wrong.
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chalkhills
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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by chalkhills » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:00 pm

Thanks for getting back!

I've had a good trawl through most of the CC posts here and elsewhere - most Retro CC Siemens attempts seem to be on the semi-mux cars and end up getting nowhere because of lack of wiring. I'm probably gonny waste a good chunk of my life pursuing this I know. . .
The only thing that is stopping going ahead me just now is the clutch switch issue - surely a simple ( :lol: ) fix?

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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by Doggy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:13 pm

Maybe it's possible with a full-mux, I don't know.

All of them have a clutch switch AFAIK even without cruise, I think it's used to reduce the power delivery when the clutch is depressed as an aid to smooth getaways. Some people beleive this hampers general performance and have disconnected the switch for this reason. May not be relevant, just thought I'd let you know.
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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by steve_earwig » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:20 pm

Hi there. Just looking in Sedre, strangely the clutch switch goes straight to the BSI in the SID801, not to the engine ECU :? Worth looking for it in the BSI?
chalkhills wrote:The switch itself if fine (removed & tested with multimeter)
What about testing the other way to see if there's anything on the wire?
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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by chalkhills » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:31 pm

That's what I was after - Thanks! - I've yet to get Sedre installed

I take it from the diag that one side of the clutch switch should be connected to ground (I can test this with meter?) and the other side to BSI (I can test this too).

The clutch switch should be working regardless of whether CC is enabled as it is used by ECU during gear changes etc - that's right aye?

Thanks again

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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by chalkhills » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:32 pm

Is that what you mean't by 'testing the other way'?

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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by steve_earwig » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:36 pm

That's it, yes. I know the engine ecu uses clutch info on the Bosch (they do strange things when they're broke) but I don't know on the Semen's, I'd think so but...
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2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by chalkhills » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:47 pm

Great - Just a quickie re the BSI connection before bed - I'm getting my head around the wiring symbols. . .

26V JN [18] on the BSI means I'm looking for pin 18 on the Yellow 26 way connector right?

Thanks again

Dave

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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by Doggy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:23 pm

chalkhills wrote:Great - Just a quickie re the BSI connection before bed - I'm getting my head around the wiring symbols. . .

26V JN [18] on the BSI means I'm looking for pin 18 on the Yellow 26 way connector right?
Correct. Note the use of wire numbers, rather than colours.
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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by steve_earwig » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:55 am

I was thinking about this while, umm, meditating just now and I remembered this - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15963&p=205446&hili ... ch#p205431

So it looks like on my Bosch system you have to enable it in the BSI but the engine ecu still won't see anything :? Wonder if the SID is the same...

Btw if you do test it, on yours it's earth switched (according to Sedre...)
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by chalkhills » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:35 am

YAY!!!

It Works! - It Buckin' works!

It was actually pretty straightforward after all. There was no connection on my car from the clutch switch to the BSI - I wired a connection in to pin 18 on the Yellow 26 way connector on BSI and when grounded it is indeed registered as 'clutch depressed' in parameter test (PP2000). However this was a blind alley. The existing clutch switch on my car is already connected directly to the Seimens ECU (E3 - 32Way black) but this is not a veiwable parameter in PP2000 hence the confusion. I've no Idea what the BSI connection is used for - presumably other models etc.

I jacked up the front end so front wheels could spin and shorted the missing (2nd) brake switch connector with a wire link (switch should be OPEN when pedal depressed). I didn't have a stalk so made up a temporary bodge with some 2.54mm pitch connector and some tactile switches.
The purpose of this was to determine whether CC would work before I go to the expense of buying brake switch and CC stalk.
IMG_20141012_180817.jpg
below: - (6 connections from left to right) pad 4 is the common - the other pads are +/set, -/set, pause/resume, CC on, speed limit on (only used on later models) - I tested witch pad was which by connecting each in turn to the common pad 4 an checked the COM2000 instrument parameters in PP2000.
I can post up if anyone needs.
IMG_20141013_000641.jpg
I had a spare pcb to experiment with - you don't have to take your switchgear apart - I show this just for illustration. You can slide on 10 way connector such as this onto the end of the COM2000 pcb by removing the blanking cap from the stalk aperture - A small mirror and headtorch help to ensure the pins line up with the pads.
IMG_20141012_180817.jpg
Tried it on the road (carefully as no brake defeat yet) and it works a treat!
Awaiting cheap stalk on ebay - unless anyone has. .. ?
Another thing anyone could help me with? - I need to get the cruise brake switch but they don't come supplied with the retaining collar - where (except scrappers) can I get one of these?

If anyone needs any help with similar let me know.

Dave
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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by steve_earwig » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:26 am

Yay! Nicely done :cheesy: The clutch switch stuff seems to be just s misleading in the Bosch. The CC diagram does indeed show the clutch wiring going to the BSI but then the engine ECU pinout shows it on 32V NR E3 - can't be both Mssr. Peugeot :roll:

The brake switch retaining rings are part # 453430, about 30 pence from Pug. The stalk is 67 quid (ouch!), part # 6242Z9. Most of the breakers on ebay seem to want silly money for them though. Try your local breaker's? I think there's someone breaking an exec on here at the moment, not sure what year it is though. Actually, I was never sure what was inside the stalk, but as it just seems to be physical switches maybe that means you can use the speed limiter stalk, or just a set of switches until you can get hold of the right thing (you probably only need set & resume for now)
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by Doggy » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:43 pm

Well done sir! 8)

As steve says, gingermagic is breaking his exec, but I think he will have used the c/c stalk on his GLX....
You could try Ade Bingham for a c/c stalk, (and maybe any other bits from a HDi coupe).
Email:adrian.bingham@talk21.com / 01246 268794
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Re: Cruise Retrofit on HDI (90) Siemens 801 Full Mux

Post by ruwds » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:46 pm

Hi everyone,

Thought I'll post here than open a new topic. I am trying to enable cruise control on my car which is a 2003/09 HDI 90 with the Siemens 801 ECU.

I have fitted the stalk and activated in ECU (speed regulation -> present) and in BSI (engine -> clutch contact present & misc -> with cruise control). I have got the extra brake switch and have found the red colour connector hidden in the wiring, but there is no menu on PP2000 to check the switch coherence. I have read online that some cars use the main break switch (?) I haven't fitted this yet. Tested the cruise stalk and all contacts register fine on PP2000. Tried to engage cruise on a test drive but it did not work and after the drive, BSI shows - permanent fault, clutch switch.

Any ideas on this?
2003 406 2.0 HDi 90 S
• Connects2 USB/SD/Aux • Cruise Control

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