Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia??? SOLVED

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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Doggy
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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by Doggy » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:55 pm

PP Diagnostic won't work, (it's an extra-cost online service).
Start PP2000 from PP Office, then select vehilce type, enter build code.

Without connecting to the car, you should be able to get PP2000 to start and get a message, (briefly), saying 'Vehicle Identification and Configuration', while it attempts to talk to your car, followed by an 'interrogating the ECU' box telling you to check it's connected / ignition on

How far are you getting?
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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by drjonts » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:29 pm

Doggy wrote:PP Diagnostic won't work, (it's an extra-cost online service).
Thanks for confirming that Doggy - was a tad worried it was bad that it didn't work!
Doggy wrote:Start PP2000 from PP Office, then select vehilce type, enter build code.

Without connecting to the car, you should be able to get PP2000 to start and get a message, (briefly), saying 'Vehicle Identification and Configuration', while it attempts to talk to your car, followed by an 'interrogating the ECU' box telling you to check it's connected / ignition on

How far are you getting?
I ask it to start PP2000 (V1.9.4 apparently) with the diagnostic box in the USB port but not connected to the car (laptop battery is toast so will have to take an extension lead out there tomorrow) and it gives a Firefox version update required for new Java plug-in (not too worried about that...have updated firefox...or am I wrong?) and then tell it I have a 406 and then 406R for the facelift model and then it gives me the 4 options of PP Diag, PP2000, Wiring diagram, PP Measure.

So I choose PP2000, and it asks me to enter a build code. Enter that (characters 2-5 on the sticker on the A-post inside the driver's door) and the whirring cogs/please wait box comes up and then the dull 'donk' windows noise that happens when something has gone wrong rings out and then it just goes back to the 4 choice screen of PP Diag, PP2000, Wiring diagram, PP Measure.

It just won't run anything and give me the menus that I saw the first time it loaded (had chosen the early 406 and not the later one then). So shut down and re-started and just won't give me anything that runs past this 4 choice screen. However, PP Measure does come up but all with absence of device.

Think I should connect it to the car next in case it can detect what it is talking to (or is a 53 plate too old for that sort of thing?).

The disk has some upgrade stuff on it I believe - do I need to upgrade something to get it working do you think.

BTW took a long time for PP to actually load onto the laptop originally. Is it worth an uninstall, re-install....hope so as I've uninstalled and will try again tomorrow I think.

Cheers,

Jonty

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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by Doggy » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:23 pm

The bits I described were from running mine without connecting to the car. Sounds like you don't have a workable install on your laptop, so it may be worth trying to install again.

Know how you feel, I wound up installing it on my desktop m/c too before discovering a blown fuse on my diagnostic port! (which I don't think is your issue, BTW).
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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by drjonts » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:03 am

Ok folks,

Typing sat in the car! PP2000 has loaded and the interface box has made a connection to the car. However, the only ECU it will talk to is the engine ECU, everything else (BSI etc.etc,) says that they don't reply. I can hear the diagnostic box click, but it says that these ECUs don't reply.

Any thoughts?

Jonty

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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by Doggy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:39 am

I sometimes get this with a global scan, but have more success with accessing individual ecu's separately. Failing that, I suspect the engine ecu uses a different pin, (the 'K-line'), to some of the rest, so you could have connectivity problems, Can you try your setup on any other Pug, (or Cistern if you've installed the additional Gallic sorcery)?

Did have one abortive session with jasper5's van - it would only talk to his heating/ventillation system. :?

Didn't persevere with it as it involved standing in the rain & we had my car in bits at the time.
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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by drjonts » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:11 am

Ok...started to get ECUs interrogated and I am feeling out of my depth with a lot of it.

Not sure about re-setting some stuff in case I bugger the car up!

Had some engine faults (especially from when I cleaned the EGR valve with Wynn's spray) and a permanent one about the crank and cam synchronisation to do with the camshaft sensor! Is that an easy to find bit and a simple-ish fix if it's toast? With the motor running it was just saying that it was synchronised but fault exists despite clearing.

Have cleared faults (including some BSI ones) to see if they crop up again. Brake switches operating in correct order but the BSI doesn't know I've pushed the clutch. Thought I found a menu where I could tell the car the clutch switch was present but can't locate it now :roll:

Cruise Control...don't think I have ESP on mine, but not sure if I have CC with ABS or CC ABS wire connection with speed sensor BV. I suspect CC/ABS.

Which menu will I find the coherence of switches in as a measurable?...DONE and they are coherent.

Thanks Doggy - most kind of you to help with advice my friend.

Jonty

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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by drjonts » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:05 pm

Hi All,

Well, the PP2000 seems to be working and even talked to my neighbour's X reg 406 estate diesel.

(In fact, while I'm here he's having real difficulty starting it and it's loads and loads of cranking before it fires up, sounds a tad rough and then runs ok after a while. Ok to start warm. He's tried new glow plugs and relay to no effect -injector (s) perhaps? It does have an airflow sensor fault I think as it thinks it 50 deg C outside today!!! He did drown it a couple of months back in a huge flood... and had to get a load of water out of many pipes...but it didn't do this immediately...coincidental???)

So, I've not solved the cruise issue, but the permanent camshaft sensor fault I'm getting...could it be to do with that? This is the info. that I get on screen...

Engine ECU
Permanent Fault. Crankshaft-camshaft synchronisation. No camshaft sensor signal.

ECU Fault Code P0340
Engine Speed 803 rpm
Coolant Temperature 71 deg. C
Vehicle Speed 0 k.p.h.
Actual Delivery 10 mm3/stroke
Cruise Control cruise control off
Power Latch power latch not active
Air Conditioning Compressor Cut-Off air conditioning cut-off inactive
EGR Valve EGR not active

Hmmm...this fault is occuring at tickover looking at this and then is stored. If I look at parameters with the motor running it says crank/cam synchronisation...YES - so I'm a bit confused! Wiring or duff sensor?

Questions...
Does the cruise control off in that info. above mean that this fault affects the cruise system? If so, this is probably what's wrong.
What' s a Power Latch (I'll google it in a mo) EDIT: just read somehwere that... some of the early 406's go into what is called power latch , this is the Bsi rebooting itself making starting impossible... is that right

Off to surf the web then :?

Jonty

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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by Doggy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:25 pm

I think you've got a wonderful opportunity to sort out both yours and your neighbour's cars. - Try your MAF sensor on his car, see if it cures his problem, if so he can get a replacement knowing it'll be money well spent.

Not sure exactly how easy it is to do, but I think you could do the same thing to eliminate your cam and even crank sensors, (if he's will to play along).

Hoping somebody else can remember here, but wasn't there an engine wiring loom / additional earth connection mod to cure interference problems on one of the sensors, (camshaft I think)? Anyone??
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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by Doggy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:33 pm

Oh & BTW, crank sensor issues will definitely stop cruise from engaging, so I do think it's worth bottoming this fault code out.
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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by drjonts » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:03 pm

Thanks Doggy - will liaise with my neighbour over a sensor swap meet!

I hope that this is the problem now so that I can sort it out. Could it be a loose sensor do you think? the cam one is only held in by a little bolt/screw and does it need aligning at all.

The fault has only flagged the cam sensor but do you thin the crank could also be an issue then?

Will keep you all posted :)

Jonty

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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by drjonts » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:32 pm

Evening all!

Well, undid and shifted the cam sensor a bit closer to the sprocket (note to everyone - just be careful doing this with the motor running as you'll catch it in the sprocket if you push it in too far!!!!) but no difference. Fault instantly returns having been cleared. Spotted an area of chafing on one wire to the cam sensor where it passes through the plastic trunking on top of the motor, but despite being exposed the wiring seems to be intact in that area (but haven't checked anywhere else). So it could be a wiring harness break...but with the sensor unplugged, the car didn't start, plugged in and away it went.

So, wondering whether to buy a cam sensor but have read lots of cases where that didn't help.

Then I read this over at automotiveforums.com

Sorry if this isn't the right place for this, but I think it's not vehicle specific,and it might help someone, I only included vehicle info for back ground.
This may help someone out there.
It's 02 Liberty LTD 4x4 3.7L
It came into the shop on the hook, of course when I went out the following Monday it started right up and ran fine.
I pulled code P0340 no com signal to PCM, so I went into data display and everything looked fine. after it warmed up and was still running fine, so I took it out, well after about 7mi. it quit the scan tool showed no cmp (cam position sensor), signal and no cmp - ckp (crank position sensor) sync. While cranking the cmp stayed flat, then started reading, it started and I headed back to the shop, stalled and started lots of times till the battery went dead, so I called my partner and had him get a cmp, and bring the jump box. I changed the cpm on the side of the road, guess what it didn't work, so we towed it back to the shop.
Today I checked & cleaned all engine grounds, quite a few had high resistance, I also checked the wires from the cmp to the PCM. Restarted and let run for 40 min. engine temp 210 Deg. it quit. I noted the ckp was still showing a signal when the engine wasn't turning over. I got a new ckp and tested the resistance of the old one vs. the new one, (no lab scope), it showed the old one had low resistance, so I put the new one in.
I let it run from 45 min. w/no problem, so I road tested for a short trip around the block a couple of times with no problems. I drove it home 15mi. and it's doing fine.
I don't know why the ckp threw a cmp code but it did, so if your having a P0340 code ck the ckp also. Maybe some of you already know this, but it was new to me.
I hope this helps someone:2cents:


Maybe it's a problem with the crank sensor or wiring????

Jonty

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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by Doggy » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:48 pm

Very possibly. The cruise problem could definitely be caused by any degradation of the crank sensor signal. Never touched one on a 406, but I imagine the same will apply as with the cam sensor - too close & the end will get chewed off, so be careful, (if indeed it is adjustable).

You could really do with a scope to verify you have the cleanest sensor output waveforms after adjusting, but I don't suppose that's an option?

I had hoped someone would remember, but I believe there was a wiring loom mod where some of the sensor ground connections were replaced or separated from each other to cure some obscure intermittent issue - maybe this one?
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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by drjonts » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:18 pm

Cheers Doggy.

The mounting hole in the cam sensor is oval so you can adjust to a 1.2mm air gap to a target on the pulley (but you'd have to take the belt covers off to make sure). I did push it in with the motor running and felt it just starting to get nibbled and moved it a tad back...no difference! I think I read somewhere that there is little thin tab of plastic on the end of the sensor which you touch against the target to set the gap.

Concur on the scope. May be able to get a borrow of one at work if I ask nicely.

The car had a cam belt change before I got it. If they got it a tooth out, would it actually run OK but still throw up a no sensor output fault? Is the cam timing an easy enough check?

I'm hoping it's merely electrical in some way (and assume these sensors are hall-effect type with an energised coil so have a 12V feed, earth and signal wire). Crank sensor on the bell housing somewhere?

Cheers.

Jonty

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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by steve_earwig » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:37 am

The red one is the "redundant" switch.

I've been looking on Service Box about the earth mid but I can't find anything about the modification (spent more than an hour looking too...) but I do seem to remember it was faults brought up by the throttle pot & MAF sharing the same earth, the mod was to provide another.

The crankshaft sensor is in top of the clutch housing (
engine speed sensor.jpg
(63.55 KiB) Not downloaded yet
). There's not much about diagnosis (disconnect both ends, measure wires for continuity and shorts to earth) but there is what it's resistance should be measured from the engine ecu (= 360 ± 45 Ω). I can post this sort of stuff if it seems relevant.

The cam position sensor is the same sort of stuff apart from the measurement which it doesn't give. Setting a used one looks the same as Haynes to me (1.2mm stack of feeler gauge blades blah blah blah.)

I have a feeling you'd notice if the timing was out but it might be worth checking just to eliminate it from your enquiries...

The cruise control stuff I have only seems to refer to semi-mux because it shows the on/off switch as well as the stalk. The text just seems to be looking at continuity again.

The diagnostic stuff on Service Box really is as much use as a 406 handbrake :roll:
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Re: Cruise Control not working...so PP/Lexia???

Post by Doggy » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:00 pm

steve - you're probably right about the additional earth mod and it's probably not related, but thank you for looking.

Jonty, checking the cam timing is fairly easy, requiring the removal of the top section of the cambelt cover and access under the car. Can't remember the exact details, but you rotate the engine by turning the big bolt on the crank pulley until a hole, (8 mm clearance) in the camshaft pulley lines up with another in the side of the cylinder head, behind the pulley, (threaded 8 mm). You should then be able to insert a timing pin through the engine casing, above & behind the starter motor, to engage with a hole in the flywheel.

(On my car, I found I could see a narrow section of the flywheel, through the gap betwwen the bottom of the block casting and the pressed steel cover over the bottom part of the flywheel / clutch assembly, enabling me to watch for the timing hole getting close to the reference position).

Maybe reading Haynes is easier. :oops:
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