sluggish starting

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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johntl
2.0 16v
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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:38 pm
Location: cleveland , england

sluggish starting

Post by johntl » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:01 pm

My car is a 110 hdi 2001 done 170k
just recently the car has started to be sluggish when starting, never had a problem before, had the car 8 yrs
Its had a recon starter 50k ago
new battery less than a year ago
AC delco alternator 40 k ago
the battery is 12.7 v when stood
14.2 v under load so alternator seems to be working ok
any ideas , need to get it sorted before bad weather sets in
car gets a decent run mon - fri to work 40mls/day ???????

johntl
2.0 16v
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:38 pm
Location: cleveland , england

Re: sluggish starting

Post by johntl » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:48 am

IS THIS THE END !!!!
WENT TO THE CAR THIS MORNING WOULD NOT START, ONLY TURNED OVER SLIGHTLY,
CALLED THE BREAKDOWN GUYS OUT , THEY SAID BATTERY FULLY CHARGED, PUT HIS BATTERY PACK ON ,STILL NO JOY !
HE TRIED 24V STILL NO JOY, HE THINKS SOMETHING HAS SLOWLY SIEZED IN THE ENGINE , DROPPED A VALVE ?????

IS THIS THE END, IF IT NEEDS NEW ENGINE THE CAR IS SCRAP !!!!

ANYBODY GOT ANY IDEAS !!!!!!

jasper5
3.0 24v
Posts: 3684
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:30 pm

Re: sluggish starting

Post by jasper5 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:29 am

To eliminate a dropped valve or major engine problem such as seizure, turn the engine by hand using a spanner or socket and bar (ratchet) on the crank pulley....it will be easier with the glow plugs removed.
If the engine turns normally then look elsewhere.
First thing I would check after making sure the engine turns without issue is the earth wire to the starter, then remove the starter and have it tested.

frog
2.2 16v
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: sluggish starting

Post by frog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:56 pm

I had the same issue. It turned out to be the starter motor.

Like you it turned over slowly so i suspected the battery at first. But that was not the problem.

My previous starter motor lasted for 2 years (~ 80 k miles)
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

johntl
2.0 16v
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:38 pm
Location: cleveland , england

Re: sluggish starting

Post by johntl » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:24 pm

UPDATE:

WAS NOT ENGINE SEIZURE OR DROPPED VALVE, JUST SHOWS HOW PEOPLE CAN GO DOWN THE WRONG TRACK OF CLUES !!
GOT THE CAR TO THE GARAGE, HE TURNED THE ENGINE OVER SEEMED FINE , WHEN HE TOOK STARTER OFF AND BENCH TESTED IT THE MOTOR WAS COMPLETELY NAKT , DEAD SHORT TO EARTH
YOU GUYS WERE SPOT ON , FITTED ANOTHER STARTER AND JOB SORTED BACK ON THE ROAD AGAIN :D

SIGH OF RELIEF

PS: THE OLD STARTER WAS A RECON ONE ONLY LASTED 50K !!

GingerMagic
3.0 24v
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:02 pm
Location: Bournemouth

Re: sluggish starting

Post by GingerMagic » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:35 pm

GLAD ITS SORTED.
I HAD A SIMILAR ISSUE, THE STARTER GOT SLOWER AND SLOWER UNTIL IT EVENTUALLY GAVE UP ALTOGETHER.
BETTER THAN A DROPPED VALVE..!!
1999 T4 family wagon
2005 Vauxhall Meriva
1998 406 V6 Coupe - Midlife crisis..!
PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Bournemouth area.

trem1
3.0 24v
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:32 pm
Location: south shields,tyneside

Re: sluggish starting

Post by trem1 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:07 pm

Why are we shouting ??

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2004 Iron Grey 407se 136bhp......Written Off
2006 Moonstone blue 407 se 136 bhp.....Written off
2006 silver 407 SW..........replacement

PeterN
3.0 24v
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:04 pm
Location: Charmouth, Dorset

Re: sluggish starting

Post by PeterN » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:11 am

If its a reduction gear gear type starter which I think most of them are when the grease in the motor gearbox dries up it will cause slow rotation, a little gear oil in there usually speeds it up.

Peter

stoker427
1.6 8v
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:22 pm

Re: sluggish starting

Post by stoker427 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:21 pm

I have had similar sluggish starting, bought new battery, it lasted 5 weeks before leaving car out till late then at time to put away battery died. Got it charged enough to start then back in garage. Left on charge all night , no problem for a while ,then it nearly happened again. Just had the alternator checked and battery today and all is fine , what now, could a cheap starter motor have some effect on this as I know the last owner had similar problems and garage put new starter on, what make I do not know. Help anyone

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steve_earwig
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Re: sluggish starting

Post by steve_earwig » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:36 pm

Could be the starter's missing a few turns, or it could be a parasitic load, something's drawing power when it shouldn't (aftermarket rubbish is always a prime suspect) which is flattening the battery and maybe you're not driving it enough to make up for it (other driving styles available). Do you have a meter?
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

stoker427
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Re: sluggish starting

Post by stoker427 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:27 am

Not got a meter steve , what were you thinking of ? I am thinking aftermarket starter but also more to the idea something is drawing the power. Left battery connector off last night and will do that for a week or two and see if it extends the battery life, its just a thought

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steve_earwig
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Re: sluggish starting

Post by steve_earwig » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:36 am

To see what the state of charge of the battery is, to see if the alternator is outputting enough voltage to maintain the battery, to see what the voltage drops to when the starter's going. That sort of thing.
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

stoker427
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Posts: 10
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Re: sluggish starting

Post by stoker427 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:17 pm

I see what you mean, i asked the electrician to check all that, I could see that many things have been turned on in the car to test the output of the alternator and everything is working as it should. If its an intermittent fault then I will have to wait till things get worse he says.

stoker427
1.6 8v
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:22 pm

Re: sluggish starting

Post by stoker427 » Fri May 03, 2019 9:33 am

Battery died again this morning looking at getting another starter but where do you get one ? Who sells a good starter ?

stoker427
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Re: sluggish starting

Post by stoker427 » Tue May 07, 2019 10:23 pm

Found the culprit, took earth leads off from battery to chassis and to starter motor bolt, filed them and copper slip then back together. starter motor spins faster and central locking works faster. To look at they seemed fine .

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