Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Talk about the 406's electrical system, what wires do what, how to add extra functionality, etc.

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hooolagon
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Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:33 pm

Good afternoon lads!

My nephew had a Peugeot 406 coupe and it's been sitting in his front drive for a couple years now.

The original problem is that the keys were stolen. And since then we've created a new key, which unlocks the car and turns the ignition, now;

1. The key doesn't have an immobilizer chip
2. The battery died and I've bought a replacement battery
3. The window drivers side won't roll up, pressing down on the switch makes it go down, I pulled the lead and used a paper clip to force it up but it just nudged and stopped. The window remains stuck down covered it with plastic bags for now
4. Simple diagnostic code reader says "linking error"
5. Economy mode is on/present - I'm new to Peugeot and have no idea what I'm doing
6. I had the car jumped using another and tried to start it but the dashboard lights just blink and it clicks (but doesn't sound like the starter is going - suspected no immobilser chip to be the fault.

4. I've got the 4 digit pin and I've ordered a pp2000 should be delivered on Wednesday 21 2017.

Question 1: will I be able to connect to the car if the immobilizer is not present? (Derived from issue 4)
Question 2: where is the immobilizer code stored? On the BSI or ECU...
Question 3: where is the BSI on the car? I've found the ecu under the bonnet... (1998 Peugeot coupe 406)
Question 4: I've ordered a blank transponder and transponder coding machine.... do I just have to read the immob code inside one of the control units (bsi/ecu) and write the code to the chip and hopefully it cranks + starts?
Question 5: someone help me! Any information is useful.... I'm not a mechanic but I'm good with my hands and on the computer so I feel competent, but I have never dealt with a Peugeot


The car is a 3.0 V6 Peugeot 406 Coupe. With no known issues before the keys were stolen. And I don't think there's a keypad inside.... (if that's not applicable then it's clear I don't know much about peugeots)

Awaiting your reply! Much appreciated... also if anyone wants to borrow the tools drop a message; north west London, harrow area :)

Cheers

frog
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Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:23 am

A long story, i will try to unravel :cheesy:
which unlocks the car and turns the ignition
Do you mean that the car is cranking? Or just that you can turn the key in the barrel?
The key doesn't have an immobilizer chip
You mean it is missing the RFID chip (transponder)? In that case the key is pretty useless :cry: If it is only missing the remote control (buttons) then it is ok, but no transponder means no start.
The window drivers side won't roll up, pressing down on the switch makes it go down, I pulled the lead and used a paper clip to force it up but it just nudged and stopped. The window remains stuck down covered it with plastic bags for now
This sounds like a mechanical problem. If the car has been sitting for a couple of years then probably the sliding mechanism is jamming.
Simple diagnostic code reader says "linking error"
That does not say much. Better is to read the diagnostic codes with pp2000 as you've already ordered.
Economy mode is on/present - I'm new to Peugeot and have no idea what I'm doing
No problem, the BSI (comfort computer) will go in this mode if the key is in the contact but the engine hasn't been started for after a while (i think 30 minutes). The only way to get it out of this mode is to start the engine. The engine starting is not affected by this mode being active.
I had the car jumped using another and tried to start it but the dashboard lights just blink and it clicks (but doesn't sound like the starter is going - suspected no immobilser chip to be the fault.
That sounds more like a failing starter motor. Even if the immobiliser is blocking, the starter motor will turn normally.
Question 1: will I be able to connect to the car if the immobilizer is not present?
No.
Question 2: where is the immobilizer code stored? On the BSI or ECU...
Both.
Question 3: where is the BSI on the car? I've found the ecu under the bonnet... (1998 Peugeot coupe 406)
Under the driver side dash, near the door. It is kind of "behind" the fuse box. But I don't think you have to remove it, given the problems you seem to be having.
Question 4: I've ordered a blank transponder and transponder coding machine.... do I just have to read the immob code inside one of the control units (bsi/ecu) and write the code to the chip and hopefully it cranks + starts?
No i think the best procedure is the other way round. I think the transponder code can be quite randomly chosen, then go to PP2000 to "learn new keys" (google for "program 406 key pp2000" or look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhPgy4VM6IM).
Question 5: someone help me! Any information is useful.... I'm not a mechanic but I'm good with my hands and on the computer so I feel competent, but I have never dealt with a Peugeot
Here's another non-mechanic computer geek, I've always managed so you surely will as well :cheesy:. Hope my information is useful!
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 (109 PS) - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100 (98 PS)

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90 (90 PS)
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 (135 PS) - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:33 pm

A long story, i will try to unravel :cheesy:
which unlocks the car and turns the ignition
Do you mean that the car is cranking? Or just that you can turn the key in the barrel?
That I can just turn the key in the barrel...
The key doesn't have an immobilizer chip
You mean it is missing the RFID chip (transponder)? In that case the key is pretty useless :cry: If it is only missing the remote control (buttons) then it is ok, but no transponder means no start.
Missing the RFID CHIP TRANSPONDER (& yes it is pretty useless - i basically just have a key blade which is cut and fits) The remote control (buttons) is missing, however I have a completely different Peugeot 406 remote control (buttons) thing which is hopefully able to be reprogrammed i guess... but thats the least of my worries, for now: no transponder & no start!
The window drivers side won't roll up, pressing down on the switch makes it go down, I pulled the lead and used a paper clip to force it up but it just nudged and stopped. The window remains stuck down covered it with plastic bags for now

Code: Select all

This sounds like a mechanical problem. If the car has been sitting for a couple of years then probably the sliding mechanism is jamming.
Yep I believe its a mechanical issue, although I watched a youtube video of a Peugeot with drivers window all the way down and the person in the video said that's typical of the economy mode/no immobiliser/ whatever was wrong with the car in that video - I suspect it to be either... again, not a problem for now.
Simple diagnostic code reader says "linking error"
That does not say much. Better is to read the diagnostic codes with pp2000 as you've already ordered.

Yep my only worry is that if I have no keys with a transponder - immobilzer immobiliser chip - will I even be able to connect to the ECU/BSI through the diagnostics port! :shock:
Economy mode is on/present - I'm new to Peugeot and have no idea what I'm doing
No problem, the BSI (comfort computer) will go in this mode if the key is in the contact but the engine hasn't been started for after a while (i think 30 minutes). The only way to get it out of this mode is to start the engine. The engine starting is not affected by this mode being active.
Great
I had the car jumped using another and tried to start it but the dashboard lights just blink and it clicks (but doesn't sound like the starter is going - suspected no immobilser chip to be the fault.
That sounds more like a failing starter motor. Even if the immobiliser is blocking, the starter motor will turn normally.
I recall my nephew saying, in the begin it used to crank, but overtime it just stopped cranking, I believe its mostly because of the lack of a transponder now, plus (lol) the youtube video I watched the same thing happened to that person. (clearly I know very little)
Question 1: will I be able to connect to the car if the immobilizer is not present?
No.
Does this mean I can't connect the pp2000 to the car without having a key with a transponder? surely the cut key blade on its own should allow me to? Although I see the logic why it wouldn't...
FYI whilst it was jumped with another car, the electrics were working and so was the radio... =/
Question 2: where is the immobilizer code stored? On the BSI or ECU...
Both.
Can the immobiliser immobilzer code be read off the ECU/BSI? I believe its a 16 character alphanumerical code - well at least that is what the immobiliser transponder chip ID33 requires.
side note: (I'm typing that word twice so it comes up in the forum search if anyone else suffers) + I feel like a chump because I bought a zed bull mini to code the key and I think the PP2000 can do that using its software lol
Question 3: where is the BSI on the car? I've found the ecu under the bonnet... (1998 Peugeot coupe 406)
Under the driver side dash, near the door. It is kind of "behind" the fuse box. But I don't think you have to remove it, given the problems you seem to be having.
Okay, I did remove all the trim surrounding the steering column anyway, so shouldn't be a fuss getting it out if need be (Although putting it all back together :roll: )
Question 4: I've ordered a blank transponder and transponder coding machine.... do I just have to read the immob code inside one of the control units (bsi/ecu) and write the code to the chip and hopefully it cranks + starts?
No i think the best procedure is the other way round. I think the transponder code can be quite randomly chosen, then go to PP2000 to "learn new keys" (google for "program 406 key pp2000" or look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhPgy4VM6IM).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE3lLwK79-8 this is the said video... kudos to this guy... (skip to 27:35 for economy mode window stuck down situation)
again - feel like a chump for purchasing a zed bull mini key coder...
Question 5: someone help me! Any information is useful.... I'm not a mechanic but I'm good with my hands and on the computer so I feel competent, but I have never dealt with a Peugeot
Here's another non-mechanic computer geek, I've always managed so you surely will as well :cheesy:. Hope my information is useful!
Cheers pal! Its the individuals such as yourself that help the world go round!

Hopefully I can get more answers... will write up what I gather from my gander once the PP2000 arrives..

In the meantime, if its true I can't connect pp2000 without at least one key what shall I do? (what are my options)

I got the pin code from peugeot...
the information was apparently from peugeot database section "C1 - Internal" and there were other sections called "C2 - Restricted" "C3 - Confidential" "C4 - Secret"
I am extremely curious about those C2/C3/C4 sections, if anyone has any info on what they may entail, do tell!


Much appreciated.
Hooolagon.

frog
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Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:36 pm

Question 1: will I be able to connect to the car if the immobilizer is not present?
No.
Does this mean I can't connect the pp2000 to the car without having a key with a transponder? surely the cut key blade on its own should allow me to?
I'm sorry, I misread your question :cry: I read too quickly, thought you asked "will I be able to start the car if the immobilizer is not present".

So the answer is "Yes", you will be able to connect PP2000 to the car if the immobiliser (the RFID chip) is not present. Don't worry mate 8)

More answers tomorrow, have to go now. Cheers!
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 (109 PS) - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100 (98 PS)

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90 (90 PS)
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 (135 PS) - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

frog
2.0 16v
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:00 am

Ok, to make a long story short :wink: what i would do in you situation:

* Get/buy a replacement key (at the scrappies), replace the blade with the one you already have. Or try this with the other key that you have, if it is from the same model.
* Replace the battery
* Program the RFID transponder of the replacement key into the system using the PP2000 + cable you ordered. You need the PIN code, good that you have it.
* Replace the starter motor

As for the window sliding up: is the movement up in steps of like one or two inches per step? If that is the case, then that is normal behaviour.

Explanation: the 406 coupe has no window frame, and the slider system can lose track of where the window is (e.g. if the battery goes flat). The way to solve this is to close the door, let the window all the way down, then nudge it up step by step until it "feels" that it is shut. Then slide down again completely and slide up. This time the window should slide upward in one go.

Then:
Yep my only worry is that if I have no keys with a transponder - immobilzer immobiliser chip - will I even be able to connect to the ECU/BSI through the diagnostics port! :shock:
No worries :wink:, this will work.

"Virginizing" the BSI, as you suggest, is pretty useless. Even if you succeed, you will still need to program the replacement key in the system using PP2000.
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 (109 PS) - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100 (98 PS)

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90 (90 PS)
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 (135 PS) - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:04 am

Okay so after a long day today;

I got diagbox installed up to version 7.76 or around there I think, and I was definitely using pp2000 (600.75)

Connected to the car correctly, entered the VIN number correctly...

I have no idea what a DAM number is but was told it's on the sticker on the door seal... entered the first 4 digits from that dam number (it was below all the tyre pressure information... and the software continued to work so I assume it's all good

Connected to the car, scanned for faults it came up with low power to ECU and voltage short to side mirrors or memory seats (sorry typing this from the top of my head...).... I assumed that was due to the defunked battery... so cleared the codes....

Now it gets interesting

It says online the immobilizer chip transponder immobiliser must be ID 33 /pcb7930 Pcf 7931 ....
The chip I bought was a PCF7931AS and when I read it using my zed bull mini it came up as
Data aaaaa...9aaaa like that and type as 73...


When I tried to program the keys with pp2000.... I kept getting error: programming key faulty
And it wouldn't work.... this is basically the news of the day... no joy!

I used the zedbull to change the transponder data to all 0000...0000000 and type to 33 which showed as "TYPE: 33 WR"
No joy trying to program this....

I even tried removing the steering column, placing the transponder where it would be and trying to code it

Every time I got the same fault.

I used the pp2000 to clarify: ECU locked, key code - invalid

Now because I was using PCF 7931 chips I ordered one PCF 7930 chip to see if that will fix the issue

But by the looks of it I'm most likely going to have no luck....

Any suggestions, reckon I've done something wrong?

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GingerMagic
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Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by GingerMagic » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:12 am

Sorry to add confusion in any way.
Everything that Frog has suggested is correct, especially the window mechanism needing to find its limit of travel.
Now, I thought the ID chips were either ID45 for earlier 406s, and ID46 for later ones...?
What year is your Coupé?
1999 T4 family wagon, slow as a turd but the kids like it
2002 Citroen Xsara Picasso Hdi90 - Dirtied by the kids, Dented by the wife....
Sadly sold the 406, best cars I have ever owned
PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Bournemouth area.

hooolagon
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Posts: 22
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Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:13 am

Also there was a ticking sound coming from the engine bay, the right side (passenger side - in RHD) and it was a relay.....

I'll add some pictures....
IMG_0024.JPG
IMG_0025.JPG
So
1. Was the transponder chip incorrect?
2. Is my procedure wrong?
3. Could the DAM number be wrong?
4. There wasn't a BSI option in pp2000; only "protect this vehicle"
.... also I had the four digit pin code, and that worked correctly as it allowed me to pass the menu?!

I'm honestly lost.... I reckon maybe the key transponder ring signaling thing might be broken but I doubt it since it was working fine before, only the car keys were stolen ages ago...

hooolagon
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Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:16 am

GingerMagic wrote:Sorry to add confusion in any way.
Everything that Frog has suggested is correct, especially the window mechanism needing to find its limit of travel.
Now, I thought the ID chips were either ID45 for earlier 406s, and ID46 for later ones...?
What year is your Coupé?


No worries, thanks for your input, appreciate it!

It's a 1998 Peugeot 406 Coupe... I googled it and it said it uses

ID 33 TP01 PCF 7930 PCF 7931.....


Also there's a key.... random 406 one not belonging to my coupe that has a PCF7931XP/SQ chip inside...

So I am baffled!

hooolagon
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Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:28 am

IMG_0027.JPG

And this is the DAM number I used .... 9630?!

hooolagon
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Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:57 am

http://www.406coupeclub.org/Apps_BuildC ... slator.php

I found the DAM number: printed in paint on passenger side strut mount in engine bay... it's actually in the relay picture above.... lol handy...

(Sorry not sorry - for posting a link to another page - unsure if that's allowed =\ or not)

frog
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Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:41 am

Thanks GingerMagic, no problems :wink:

Hooolagon, seems you're nearly there! You have connection with PP2000, you have the DAM number and the PIN code, that is 90% progress :cheesy:

Your DAM number indicates your coupé was born on Friday June 19-th 1998.

I don't know much about transponder chips, but looking here it seems that the older models are indeed ID 33:

Code: Select all

PEUGEOT 	406 	1997-1999 	Transponder PHILIPS ID33 ● JMA TP01, TP05 ●  Silca T1 ● PCF7930 ● PCF7931
PEUGEOT 	406 	2000-2001 	Transponder PHILIPS Crypto ID45 ● JMA TP16, TPH1 ● PCF7935AS precoded
PEUGEOT 	406 	2002-     	Transponder PHILIPS Crypto2 ID46 ● JMA : TP12, TPX4 ● PCF7941 ● PCF7936
Confirmed here: http://www.r-parts.nl/chip.html?___stor ... tore=rp100
Also there was a ticking sound coming from the engine bay, the right side (passenger side - in RHD) and it was a relay.....
Was it ticking all the time? Or only when you connected via PP2000?
If it was the latter, i wouldn't be too worried, its just the software that is doing its magic.

Here is the diagram from Service Box:
D8 engine relays.jpg
(157.43 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Hope this helps a bit!
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 (109 PS) - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100 (98 PS)

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90 (90 PS)
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 (135 PS) - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

hooolagon
1.8 8v
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:25 am

I am so close but feel so far away!!!

On Saturday I was using the wrong DAM number which told pp the car was 2003 so I'm hoping that was the cause of the fault "programming keys faulty"...

I'm going back today, and I will try the correct DAM number...

Looks like the odds are in my favor since newer models have different valeo transponder rings than the old ones...
Hopefully I fire up a V6, shame it's an auto but will still be great!

Also the ticking relay looks to be the horn from what you've shared haha must have been my nephew pressing the horn constantly :lol:

I will post back my findings!

Thanks frog for all the help thus far!

hooolagon
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Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by hooolagon » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:10 pm

Hi, I'm with the car now....

Using the correct DAM number has made no difference...

I still get "Key Programming Faulty"

Not sure what to do now....

frog
2.0 16v
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Immobilizer fault and door window won't go up

Post by frog » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:17 pm

Are you following the procedure as shown here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhPgy4VM6IM
Current "fleet":
2003 406 Estate 2.0HDi 110 (109 PS) - 7 seater
2001 Citroen Saxo 1.6i 8v 100 (98 PS)

Previously owned:
2000 406 Sedan 2.0 HDi 90 (90 PS)
2000 406 Coupé 2.0i 16v 138 (135 PS) - Riviera Blue

PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Netherlands.

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