406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Shocks, springs, anything to do with the running gear

Moderator: Moderators

PeterN
3.0 24v
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:04 pm
Location: Charmouth, Dorset

406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PeterN » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:57 pm

After completely rebuilding the handbrake system on my first 406 and it making no difference I came to the conclusion it must be the lining material that determines whether they work or not. The second one I bought has a working handbrake :shock: but the last one is the same as the first.

I haven't had occasion to change the shoes on the two latest ones but what I have noticed is that if the car is left standing for a day or two in damp weather the handbrake works a treat - the first time you use it, presumable because the drum has gone rusty and increased the friction.

So, does anyone know the secret lining material? I have a set of Mintex in stock awaiting the next overhaul but perhaps those of you whose handbrake works can tell us what linings you use.

Peter

dirtydirtydiesel
3.0 24v
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:02 pm
Location: Coalville, Leics.

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by dirtydirtydiesel » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:54 pm

Peter,
I have Pagid disc's , pads & shoes on the rear of mine & you know how good my handbrake is :cheesy:
2002 110 HDi estate, Rapier in monaco blue! ( found quite a bit more power :cheesy: )
1999 3.0 V6 SE coupe in Diablo Red ( my baby )
2006 206 1.4 16v sport in Aegean blue ( wife's shopping trolley :roll: )

pp2000 owner / user, can offer Diagnostic's / fault code, reading / clearing for beer tokens in Leicestershire.

jasper5
3.0 24v
Posts: 3636
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:30 pm

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by jasper5 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:41 am

I always use Mintex, but it isn't really down to the make of shoes.

I never have a problem with any 406 I own or owned nor any that I've serviced for customers.

My handbrake works perfectly.

PeterN
3.0 24v
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:04 pm
Location: Charmouth, Dorset

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PeterN » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:04 am

Thanks for your comments.

Dirty diesel

I will bear that in mind.

Jasper.

I think it must be something to do with where you live, as stated I have had three 406 estates and only one has a reasonable handbrake, my son has a Coupe, his is also not much good and two friend on mine have 406s that I got for them and theirs are pretty useless too. My MOT man says they all are, so there must be something magic where you live.

All my hydropnumatic Citroens had superb handbrakes except possibly the CXs unless they had just been adjusted but even my 406 with the 'good' handbrake you have to pull up pretty hard. It is very hilly down here though.

Peter

trufflehunt
2.0 Turbo
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:15 pm
Location: Axbridge, Somerset

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by trufflehunt » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:24 pm

PeterN wrote:Thanks for your comments.

Dirty diesel

I will bear that in mind.

Jasper.

I think it must be something to do with where you live, as stated I have had three 406 estates and only one has a reasonable handbrake, my son has a Coupe, his is also not much good and two friend on mine have 406s that I got for them and theirs are pretty useless too. My MOT man says they all are, so there must be something magic where you live.

All my hydropnumatic Citroens had superb handbrakes except possibly the CXs unless they had just been adjusted but even my 406 with the 'good' handbrake you have to pull up pretty hard. It is very hilly down here though.

Peter


Well, Peter, jasper is the professional mechanic , works on 406's all the time, and has never had problems with the handbrake.

I put it to you that there may be something to be learned there..... :)
2002 VW Golf 1.9 TDI (100 bhp)
1993 Mazda MX5 Mk1 1.6
2000 "W" HDI 110 Executive Saloon (Recycled).

PhillipM
1.8 16v
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:08 pm

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PhillipM » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:31 pm

Nah, just a crap system. The leverage decreases as the handbrake comes up which is arse backwards.

I've been contemplating having my shoes relined with a rally compound to be honest, even in tip-top condition it's crap.

PeterN
3.0 24v
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:04 pm
Location: Charmouth, Dorset

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PeterN » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:20 pm

I reckon jasper has a secret formula for them. :wink:

Peter

User avatar
GingerMagic
3.0 24v
Posts: 2946
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:02 pm
Location: Bournemouth

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by GingerMagic » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:17 pm

Mine is good, I adjust it before the MOT, using the cog in the drum, and it's fine for a year.
I do use the handbrake to slow the car when I'm in traffic occasionally, which I think takes the sheen off the drums...

Maybe it's down to certain discs and certain shoes combo....
1999 T4 family wagon, slow as a turd but the kids like it
2002 Citroen Xsara Picasso Hdi90 - Dirtied by the kids, Dented by the wife....
Sadly sold the 406, best cars I have ever owned
PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Bournemouth area.

PhillipM
1.8 16v
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:08 pm

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PhillipM » Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:23 pm

PeterN wrote:I reckon jasper has a secret formula for them. :wink:

Peter
Must be good to fix an inherent design issue.

jasper5
3.0 24v
Posts: 3636
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:30 pm

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by jasper5 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:12 pm

PhillipM wrote:
PeterN wrote:I reckon jasper has a secret formula for them. :wink:

Peter
Must be good to fix an inherent design issue.

When they are set up correctly they work correctly!!

It isn't rocket science!!

I live in a hilly area too and my 406 estate has a perfectly set up and working handbrake...i can get you my recent mot brake figures if you like!

PeterN
3.0 24v
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:04 pm
Location: Charmouth, Dorset

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PeterN » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:50 am

There is something odd here with different members having different experiences. When I bought my first one the handbrake would work after a style, it passed the MOT but was nothing like as good as most of the previous cars I had, you really have to pull on it to hold it on a hill.

I replaced everything ,shoes, disks/drums and the two rear cables, set it up as per the book - no difference, works better when you have just adjusted the shoes but not for long. The next year when it went for MOT the tester broke the main cable trying to get a high enough reading, I replaced that, not an easy job, adjusted it according to the book and it was still no better, passed the MOT because you could now pull it up hard enough. I can only think as I said earlier that its down to brake lining material.

I'm not a novice at this, I've been repairing my own cars and other peoples since the 1950s.

Peter

PhillipM
1.8 16v
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:08 pm

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PhillipM » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:11 pm

jasper5 wrote:
When they are set up correctly they work correctly!!
Mine works. It's had everything replaced and set up correctly.
But it doesn't work 'well' by any stretch of the imagination.
Attempting to lock the rear wheels with it requires such force that you can feel things starting to stretch. Parking the thing on a hill requires 3x the force on the handbrake to hold it compared to my old 306. It's just a poor design.

Hence considering having the shoes re-lined with a rally compound. If that's not enough I'll remake the handbrake itself as the pivot there has similar leverage issues to the expanders.

PeterN
3.0 24v
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:04 pm
Location: Charmouth, Dorset

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PeterN » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:49 pm

Would have thought that rally linings would be harder, I think a softer compound is what's needed - just a thought.

Peter

jasper5
3.0 24v
Posts: 3636
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:30 pm

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by jasper5 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:09 pm

PhillipM wrote:
jasper5 wrote:
When they are set up correctly they work correctly!!
Mine works. It's had everything replaced and set up correctly.
But it doesn't work 'well' by any stretch of the imagination.
Attempting to lock the rear wheels with it requires such force that you can feel things starting to stretch. Parking the thing on a hill requires 3x the force on the handbrake to hold it compared to my old 306. It's just a poor design.

Hence considering having the shoes re-lined with a rally compound. If that's not enough I'll remake the handbrake itself as the pivot there has similar leverage issues to the expanders.

My present 406 Estate works perfectly with normal effort on 4 clicks of the handbrake lever, my previous saloon worked perfectly on 4 clicks, even with my wife using it every day...she did 64,000 miles in the car without replacing the shoes, cables or anything!

I recently replaced my brother's worn out 406 Estate handbrake shoes with my usual Mintex ones...his handbrake works perfectly, even with his caravan connected!

In my how-to I mention setting the shoes with all cable adjusters backed off, tighten the adjuster wheels until the drum is locked solid and you can't adjust any more...then back off one click at a time until the shoes are just binding a little, usually 3 or 4 clicks, then adjusting the rear cable and finally the cable at the handbrake lever...this is for maximum leverage.
As a professional mechanic (46 years experience, 36 years in business) I constantly see issues with handbrakes where they are adjusted incorrectly and therefore losing leverage...cables adjusted without setting the handbrake pads/shoes properly first.

PhillipM
1.8 16v
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:08 pm

Re: 406 handbrake, what shoes do you use?

Post by PhillipM » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:06 pm

Mine are adjusted correctly, the handbrake will hold on 4 clicks. It's just not very good.

(I only have a decade of experience with building brake systems from scratch for multiple championship winning rally cars)
Last edited by PhillipM on Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply