going to have a go at welding the sills !

Discuss the 406's Bodywork stuff in here (what parts fit what, what can be interchanged with what etc etc).

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johntl
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going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by johntl » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:26 pm

I've done some mig welding a long time ago, but was was wondering if tig was the best way to go ??
with the new MOT rules about major fails need to be fixed there and then, not giving you chance to get it sorted before MOT due date!!
I know there is some very thin bits on the sills will be pulled !, thought as off work for a while I'd give it a go

TIG OR MIG ?????

Ps ALL THE BEST IN THE NEW YEAR

dirtydirtydiesel
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by dirtydirtydiesel » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:05 pm

Mig's the easiest & best for car bodywork
I've been doing it for my profession for over the last thirty years :roll:
2002 110 HDi estate, Rapier in monaco blue! ( found quite a bit more power :cheesy: )
1999 3.0 V6 SE coupe in Diablo Red ( my baby )
2006 206 1.4 16v sport in Aegean blue ( wife's shopping trolley :roll: )

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johntl
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by johntl » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:36 pm

Thanks for your pro input , so its whether to afford a cheap fluxed core mig or hire one .
I see you can get a cheap one with good reviews for about £80 ??

PeterN
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by PeterN » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:08 pm

Having never had rust in a 406 before, I took the wife's in for MOT a couple of months ago and he spied a small hole in the sill, after he had investigated it most of it was laying on the floor. I debated whether to have it repaired but in view of the rest of the car being OK and the ridiculous price of a replacement now I decided to go ahead.

I don't get on well with welding thin metal so I let my friendly local garage do it, He made up a new sill section, welded in and painted it all for less than £200 including the MOT! The job he did was superb.

He has a very fancy TIG welder I think it is but his skill is probably the main factor.

I wish you every success with yours.

Peter

dirtydirtydiesel
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by dirtydirtydiesel » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:02 pm

johntl wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:36 pm
Thanks for your pro input , so its whether to afford a cheap fluxed core mig or hire one .
I see you can get a cheap one with good reviews for about £80 ??
It all depends on how much you think you'll use it in the future.
I bought one for home when I was sixteen :shock: & it still work great (S.I.P) If it helps
Doesn't get much use these days but when I bought it I was restoring a mini :roll:
So lot's of use :lol:

You can T.I.G a car, you can gas weld / braze even stick weld a car, I've done it all
But M.I.G is the simplest & easiest

Have a look on YouTube for Bad Obsession Motorsport & watch their choice of welding type for bodywork :wink:

All I'll say is cheep gasless welders will do the job but will make it harder, (To do a nice job).

But you'll probably be grinding most of it off anyway depending on how you choose to carry out the repair.
ie: full patch over the top, cut out rot & weld in from behind (lap, but or joggeled joint) then fill or replacement panel ?

I strongly suggest that you practice, practice, practice on material the same as you'll be welding & in the same position
Welding lying on you back in the cold/damp is a lot harder than on the bench :cheesy:
2002 110 HDi estate, Rapier in monaco blue! ( found quite a bit more power :cheesy: )
1999 3.0 V6 SE coupe in Diablo Red ( my baby )
2006 206 1.4 16v sport in Aegean blue ( wife's shopping trolley :roll: )

pp2000 owner / user, can offer Diagnostic's / fault code, reading / clearing for beer tokens in Leicestershire.

PeterN
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by PeterN » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:32 pm

I use a gas less one because I do most of my welding outside and the wind tends to blow the gas away.

Peter

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steve_earwig
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by steve_earwig » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:23 pm

But you can't put a fire out with a gas-less mig :shock:

I've had a Clarke Pro-90 amp (gas) mig for probably getting on for 30 years, it's been used for all sorts of things, not just rusty cars. I'm just about to make some stairs with it, although I'm secretly hoping it goes bang and gives me the excuse to buy something more powerful :supafrisk:
dirtydirtydiesel wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:02 pm
Bad Obsession Motorsport
Perhaps not the best place to start if you've never done any welding before, although the level of engineering, fabrication and downright madness is well worth watching. There are lots of other how-to's on Youtube that won't make you feel like you need to be a brain surgeon...

Got any links for the welders you are perusing? How powerful it is will depend on your budget but you need something that goes down to say 30 amps or you'll blow holes in everything.

I started out by renting but they were generally ruins, getting my own was a revelation on how easy it was using a welder that actually worked how it was meant to.
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by PeterN » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:17 pm

For any substantial welding I still use my 40 year old stick welder, I get on much better with that - probably because I have had more practise with it.

Peter

dirtydirtydiesel
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by dirtydirtydiesel » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:47 pm

steve_earwig wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:23 pm
But you can't put a fire out with a gas-less mig :shock:

I've had a Clarke Pro-90 amp (gas) mig for probably getting on for 30 years, it's been used for all sorts of things, not just rusty cars. I'm just about to make some stairs with it, although I'm secretly hoping it goes bang and gives me the excuse to buy something more powerful :supafrisk:
dirtydirtydiesel wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:02 pm
Bad Obsession Motorsport
Perhaps not the best place to start if you've never done any welding before, although the level of engineering, fabrication and downright madness is well worth watching. There are lots of other how-to's on Youtube that won't make you feel like you need to be a brain surgeon...

Steve,
I was mearly trying to point out that people that build rally car's ect for a living welding of choice is M.I.G for bodywork
Also the welding of choice of over 95% of professional car restorers.
I totally agree that for the novice, gasless is the best choice.
But then unless you plan / want to do more in the future, so is paying someone to do it vs £150.00 + on kit.
2002 110 HDi estate, Rapier in monaco blue! ( found quite a bit more power :cheesy: )
1999 3.0 V6 SE coupe in Diablo Red ( my baby )
2006 206 1.4 16v sport in Aegean blue ( wife's shopping trolley :roll: )

pp2000 owner / user, can offer Diagnostic's / fault code, reading / clearing for beer tokens in Leicestershire.

johntl
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by johntl » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:28 am

Yes it makes me think about which way to go ?
I would like to do it myself but ! !!!!
I don't have a garage to work in :(
2 its winter :frown: :frown:
3 I'm 63 nearly :x
4 I've found a bloke that will do both sills for £200 ?????
5 It would still cost me about £100 for both sills on e-bay wether I did it or not

Might just get the n/s sill done as thats the worst
I seem to be talking myself out of doing it myself, As usual its all about money to do it !!!!

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steve_earwig
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by steve_earwig » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:33 pm

If it's something you envision using for all sorts of other repairs, projects etc. then it'll soon pay for itself, otherwise if this is it and then it'll sit in the back of your shed for the rest of time then it's not worth getting one. Certainly not if you can get the whole job done for less than the cost of a welder and parts.

I wouldn't advise laying in the road in winter learning how to weld even if you were 36 :shock:
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

2004 D9 2.0 HDi 110 Estate lhd VF38ERHZF81657352 - sold but being very well looked after.
1991 Yamaha TDM850 - fuel leaks galore!
2008 Toyota Recall4 2.0 VVTI ATM LHD JTMBH31V90D007261 - flimsy piece of crap.
1953 Matchless G3LS - It's alive!!

dirtydirtydiesel
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by dirtydirtydiesel » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:01 pm

johntl wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:28 am
Yes it makes me think about which way to go ?
I would like to do it myself but ! !!!!
I don't have a garage to work in :(
2 its winter :frown: :frown:
3 I'm 63 nearly :x
4 I've found a bloke that will do both sills for £200 ?????
5 It would still cost me about £100 for both sills on e-bay wether I did it or not

Might just get the n/s sill done as thats the worst
I seem to be talking myself out of doing it myself, As usual its all about money to do it !!!!
johntl,

Two things, if you've found someone to do it for £200.00 is that total or just for the welding?

Unless your planning to restore it, How long do you wish it to last, you don't need to buy complete sills,
You can just do local repairs using zintec or plain thin sheet steel, less than a tenner at your local steel fabricators.

One final point, check the mot reg's to the letter, for the last few years holes in sills have not been a fail
Unless within 150mm of a suspension mounting point :?
The tester can't fail it if you ask him to look & give his opinion ,Only if he's testing it.

I'm not saying you want to leave it, but maybe until the better weather?
2002 110 HDi estate, Rapier in monaco blue! ( found quite a bit more power :cheesy: )
1999 3.0 V6 SE coupe in Diablo Red ( my baby )
2006 206 1.4 16v sport in Aegean blue ( wife's shopping trolley :roll: )

pp2000 owner / user, can offer Diagnostic's / fault code, reading / clearing for beer tokens in Leicestershire.

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GingerMagic
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by GingerMagic » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:20 pm

Slightly* off topic....
I put my carcinogenic T4 through an MOT and it failed on a fair few things, the main point being rust.. :roll:
I mustard mitt I was fearing the eye watering sum of money to weld the inner and outer sill on both sides ( full length on the driver's side, half length on the passenger side ) but I was recommended a bloke that comes to you and does the work. Turns out he's a bit old school and said 'Meh, call it £200' which I thought was a steal.
All sorted now, just saving up for the CV joints and brake imbalance...

I guess owning a 20 year old van should make me invest in a welder too ( I gave away Dad's old arc welder 15 years ago ) but if this bodg..er, I mean 'repair' lasts 3 or 4 years then I don't see the need.
1999 T4 family wagon
2005 Vauxhall Meriva
1998 406 V6 Coupe - Midlife crisis..!
PP2000 user, can help with faults / diagnostics in the Bournemouth area.

johntl
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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by johntl » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:11 pm

thanks guys,
due to finances going to just get it patched if they pull it on the mot !
I know it needs a wheel bearing o/s font and that won't be peanuts ,and fingers crossed they don't find anything else ,with an 18 yr old car its always a lottery !!!!
The big decision will be if the clutch goes, its done 175k ,and as you know your are looking at £500 + !!!!

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Re: going to have a go at welding the sills !

Post by PhillipM » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:39 pm

Gas mig.
Gasless is a pain in the arse as it starts much worse than gasless and you'll have to do more cleanup, TIG is a waste of time unless you cut it back to completely perfectly clean metal and get your repair seamless - and you have it indoors otherwise the wind is a nightmare.
Stick welder? Forget it on car bodywork. It can be done, yes, but it always ends up a hell of a mess to sort out.

Beware that slapping a patch over the top usually just means the rest of it will rust even faster as you've created a moisture trap. So if you're keeping the car, worth doing it right the first time.

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