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Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:45 pm
by Doggy
My daughter's 307 has apparently dropped a valve - happened on trying to start, engine turns freely in either direction for about half a turn, but won't go all the way round. Timing belt seems intact.

Managed to recover it last weekend, but haven't attacked it yet. (Another family member has loaned them an old Rover 200 for now). The car is a 57-plate 1.6 petrol hatchback, Serviceballcocks insists it must be a 1.6 i 16v 110 (TU5JP4)

Thinking I'll strip it down without much expectation of recovering the situation, (but might as well have a butchers). Suspect the best hope of sorting it at moderate cost would be a known good s/h engine - we can afford a few months to resolve it, but not too much of the folding stuff.

All suggestions that don't involve a viking funeral welcome....

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:30 pm
by steve_earwig
Get an endoscope/boreascope? Dropped valve, bent valve, valve seat fallen out.... I don't suppose it's going to be good, whatever it is, so you're best bet is to do the bare minimum to diagnose it to make sure you called it and then bin it.

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:15 am
by Welly
Good call, endoscope down the spark plug hole (remove all plugs for easy of turning) them get a willing* helper* to turn engine by hand...hopefully you'll see enough to confirm.

What's the mileage and how does a modern engine drop a valve anyway :?

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:47 am
by jasper5
You should be able to tell if you have a dropped valve by removing the timing belt, cam covers (rocker covers) and spark plugs.
Place a long screwdriver in each plug hole and check if the pistons are near the top or half way down....it you can get the pistons where all of them are about half way down (in a position where the valves cannot touch a piston) then turn each cam and see what happens to the valves...see if any of the cam buckets are further down than the others with the cam lobe in the closed position...this will tell if you have a bent/dropped valve.
You can remove each camshaft block and do the same check...see if any valve is not sat back level with the others.

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:11 am
by Doggy
Thank you for the suggestions people. 8)
I reckon I'll go with jasper5's approach as it has a good chance or revealing the cause, (and I don't seem to have too much success with endoscopes). Hopefully have a look over the weekend.
A quick scan of fleabay revealed a couple of potential replacement engines in the region of £125/150, but I'd have to factor in a clutch kit & possible hire of a hoist, so worth spending a bit on fixing this one. (I think it's sub 100k miles and always sounded really sweet / pulled well).

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:57 pm
by jasper5
Did you ever get round to sorting this out Eric?

I just got round to looking at the Twingo today...took the cam cover off and found a broken valve spring and no exhaust valve in number 4 cylinder.
Took the head off and found the valve seriously bashed up on top of the piston and a nice crack across the piston.
Head is ok but it needs 2 new valves and a piston....bore is fine as well, surprisingly!
Piston will be removed tomorrow and parts ordered.

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:24 pm
by Doggy
No John, I haven't got round to it yet. :oops:
Not massively urgent since prospective SIL has been given an old Rover 200 on indefinite loan, but I must make a start soon.
Having to work most of Easter, (maybe for the last time), maybe the weekend after........

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:33 pm
by jasper5
Not much fun working Easter :( I'm trying to retire but folks keep bringing me problems!

Got the piston out this morning, it's completely smashed in half around the gudgeon pins...amazed the bore isn't scratched!!
Off to the engineers tomorrow to get a costing to see if it is worth fixing.
I'll let you know the cost then you might have a rough idea with the 307.

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:38 pm
by Doggy
Best of luck with it.
As regards retirement, I'm planning to only work 3 days a week from the end of April and jack it in completely about this time next year.
We'll see........

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:46 pm
by Doggy
Some good news on the 307. :)
They found a low mileage (52k) engine from a C2 for £200 delivered with pretty much all the ancillaries.
My daughter's other half and his 2 brothers rocked up this morning and set about fitting it.
10 minutes ago they got it started. :D

Even better, I never laid a finger on it saving charging the battery yesterday. :cheesy:

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 10:12 pm
by jasper5
Doggy wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:46 pm
Some good news on the 307. :)
They found a low mileage (52k) engine from a C2 for £200 delivered with pretty much all the ancillaries.
My daughter's other half and his 2 brothers rocked up this morning and set about fitting it.
10 minutes ago they got it started. :D

Even better, I never laid a finger on it saving charging the battery yesterday. :cheesy:

That's fantastic :cheesy:

Glad you didn't have to get involved!

My little project has stalled (forgive the pun) as the engineer doing the cylinder head work is still waiting for a part for a machine that does the valve seat fitting (it's coming from America he says) I'm thinking that maybe I should have got another engine!

Regarding retirement, I officially retired 5th April, but people keep bugging me to death! It's really hard saying NO, but I'm winning :)

I have the 406 HPi not running atm...my brother jump started it and now the immobiliser is on...key light on dash but no start!
I'm hoping that recoding the keys will unlock the immobiliser, unfortunately I have to go over to Yorkshire to do it.
When i get it started It's coming back to me.

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:09 pm
by Doggy
Yes, it's looking good bar a brief near-overheating glitch - guess it had some air trapped somewhere - coolant level dropped once but has stayed put since. I cleared a significant number of faults today, only one returned - solenoid for purging the fuel vent canister or some such. I may have to investigate that one as there is a slight fuel smell when parked, but no sign of leakage. Believe the culprit lurks somewhere behind the osf wheel/arch.

Best of luck with the HPI, hope I'm wrong but I think recoding the keys will only fix the remote locking. I beleive the immobiliser chip is one-time programmable.
Maybe the receiver ring around the ignition lock has come loose?
I've also seen this happen if you download an incompatible engine ecu map - that recovers when you restore the right one.

Hope you get it sorted painlessly.

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:41 am
by GingerMagic
Recoding the keys should fix it - it's the original chip that the car has forgotten - the 4 digit PIN and PP2000 should work. Don't forget to do all the keys that belong to the Hpi at the same time....

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:40 am
by Welly
Good result Doggy, I saw a replacement Twingo engine recently for 140 notes. Damn cheep but I guess Frech engines are in plentiful supply.

Jasper - congrats on the retirement! and just to bother you some more; why did the little Twingo's Head Gasket fail in the first place? I know they can dribble from the water pump so I guess if that went unchecked for long enough.....

Re: Non-406 1.6 TU series engine problem

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:09 am
by jasper5
Glad the TU is ok now :cheesy:
The coolant level dropping is a good sign that all the air is out.

Thanks GM, I hope I can sort this! I'm going over to Yorkshire tomorrow to take a look.

Welly, the head gasket didn't fail...it dropped a valve in number 1 cylinder...a valve spring snapped in half! the valve hammered the piston and snapped it in two around the gudgeon pin.
The engine is having a new piston, 2 valves, 2 valve seats and machining.
The car didn't cost me anything so it isn't too bad, but with hindsight, I should have changed the engine!